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Adam Hartwell: [00:00:00] So hello and welcome to MI a’s presentation on Attainable the Able Savings Plan here in Massachusetts. My name is Adam Hartwell. I’m the director of Attainable Outreach for Mifa.

Uh, MIFA is a state authority that was created by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 1982 to help families plan, save, and pay for college and reach financial goals. Because of the similarities between the Able Savings Plan and 5 29 college savings accounts, we were selected as the state sponsor for the Able Savings Plan.

Uh, the Steven Beck Jr. Achieving a Better Life Experience or Able Act, amended the federal tax code in 2014 to add Section 5 29 A. Uh, a lot of people are familiar with 5 29 college savings plans, which are investment accounts for qualified education expenses. 5 29 A is investment accounts for qualified disability expenses for eligible individuals.

This legislation established what we call [00:01:00] ABLE accounts. These are these tax exempt investment accounts for eligible individuals with disabilities to be used for qualified disability expenses while keeping eligibility for federal public benefits. Uh, there have been additional provisions and expansions that have been made to the ACT continually since its adoption.

And the purposes of today’s, uh, webinar is not only to discuss the, uh, general, uh, outline of what ABLE is, but also to make sure that everyone is updated on all of those updates. There are 49 active able programs in the United States in Massachusetts. The ABLE program is called the Attainable Savings Plan, uh, in various states.

The same program has many different names. There are a lot of similarities. There are some fe federal understandings that all programs have to, uh, abide by. And there are also a couple differences between the states. Uh, attainable was launched in 2017. MIFA is the state sponsor, and Fidelity Investments is our program manager.

So who is eligible for an attainable account? [00:02:00] Individuals are eligible for an attainable account if the onset of disability occurred before the individual turned 26 years old. Now, due to us passing the Able Age Adjustment Act that is going up to age 46 starting on January 1st at, of 2026, I mean, midnight that night.

Uh, so, and it is regardless of current age, so it does not matter how old you are now. It is when you had onset. It also does not matter when necessarily you received a diagnosis. If that diagnosis also says, oh, you must have had this for 10 years, or what have you. If it says you had it, you, you know, had onset of the disability before 26 or again in, uh, in two months.

Uh. Uh, at the, and before 46, you are eligible, uh, you should be eligible to receive SSI or SSDI due to your disability, essentially, meaning that the disability is marked and severe, which is Social Security Administration term that indicates the impairment causes serious significant limitations in a person’s ability to perform basic work or age appropriate [00:03:00] activities that are expected to last at least 12 months or result in death.

Um, there’s and meets or functionally equals the criteria of the Social Security administration’s listings of impairments. We have a bunch of list of impairments over on the right side of the screen here. You could also self-certify as meeting requirements such as those in Social Security administration’s blue.

Again, the categories aren’t right or within their compassionate allowances. These are conditions that primarily include certain cancers, brain disorders, and a number of rare disorders that affect children. So, um, there is a general thought process that a lot of people jump to when it comes to ABLE accounts, which is that they’re just for someone with a developmental disability.

But it also includes if you’re in long-term cancer recovery, if you have a mental health disorder, if you have an endocrine disorder, if you have a respiratory disorder that keeps you from being able to live your life, you know, at an age appropriate level. There are a lot of different possible conditions that might qualify you for able, you should also qualify for able, if you are considered blind.[00:04:00]

Benefits of an attainable account. Funds in an attainable account are not counted against federal benefits like SSI hud Snap fafsa, we’ll go into this a lot more later. Attainable accounts that allow the account owner or beneficiary to save above the current $2,000 SSI asset limit. The $2,000 SSI asset limit has not changed since 1989.

There is an amount of money that you’re allowed to have before we start counting that asset limit called a disregard, and that has not been changed since 1972. So for a lot of people, attainable is the, uh, way that they can provide an opportunity for savings. Family and friends are allowed to contribute to attainable accounts and beneficiaries have relatively immediate access to funds for their needs.

I put a little relatively in there because as it is an investment account, it can take about 24 hours or so for it to process because you’re doing a small scale trade when you withdraw from an enable account. I’ll go into that a little bit more as well later. Uh, accounts provide individuals with disabil.

Both financial [00:05:00] independence, several tax benefits, and the ability to save for needs and emergencies without penalty.

What are these qualified disability expenses? I keep mentioning they include any expenses related to health, personal support services. That includes financial management, legal or law forces, expenses for able oversight, transportation. That is all transportation. So that includes a bus pass that includes an Uber.

That includes buying a car, uh, that includes fixing your wheelchair van employment trainings and supports, funeral and burial expenses, assistive technology and related services, which includes buying apps. So if you already have an iPad, but you want an augmentative communication application that costs another $500, that’s another thing you could save up for using ABLE Housing.

My next screen is just housing expenses. We’ve got a whole bunch of those that we’ve gotten clarification on education. All education expenses are considered able, uh, qualified expenses. So you can pay your tuition, you can pay for trade school, you can buy the tools you [00:06:00] need for trade school, you can pay for your lab fees, you can pay for your textbooks.

All of that can come out of able savings, uh, prevention and wellness expenses and basic living expenses, which we recent a couple years ago, we got clarification includes all food. So food is a qualified disability expense, and that does not matter where you get the food from, whether it’s McDonald’s or the grocery store, or Uber Eats if you’re getting food.

It is a qualified disability expense. Now again, housing expenses for enable count are similar to those for in kind support and maintenance purposes. So that can include rent, including first last, and security if you’re saving up for a new place, it can be, you can buy a house with your able savings. You can put your mortgage on your able, you can uh, put a house down payment and you can pay a, the pay the property insurance that’s required by the mortgage holder.

You can pay real property taxes. Those are the taxes that are on the, uh, the things of, of on the property that don’t leave when you do. So, buildings, land, that kind of thing, as opposed to personal property that comes with you almost all your [00:07:00] bills. Heat, gas, electricity, water, internet, all those kinds of things can be paid through.

Able garbage removal can be paid through able. So there, essentially it’s almost anything involving your bills in your home can be paid, uh, through out of your able account. And one of the great uses of an ABLE account is to provide an opportunity for a person to have a very clear paperwork line for showing that they’re paying in kinds important maintenance if they’re living at home with family.

Because instead of having a family member say, alright, give me $600 and then I’m going to tell, uh, the Social Security administration or whomever that you paid me back, you paid me back 400 for rent, a hundred went towards electricity, 50 went to, instead of doing that, if the individual can pay directly out of their own account, their share of the electricity, their share of the water, their share of the sewer, gas, whatever coming directly out of their account, it makes it a very clear, uh, uh, demonstration that they’re paying their in-kind support and maintenance.[00:08:00]

Now who can open an account? Attainable accounts can be opened by what we refer to as a person with signature authority. That’s a term we’re gonna use a lot. PSA. So this is the person who has control over the account, the person who can make withdrawals. Um. We have a list of people who can fulfill that role.

The individual with the disability themselves, of course, is at the top of that list. A person with their power of attorney, their legal guardian, their spouse, their parent, their sibling, their grandparent or their rep payee. This is a hierarchy. So, um, if there is somebody higher on this list than the individual, than you, then those people get, uh, and they want the job, they get it.

So if there is a parent who wants to be the person with signature authority and a grandparent who wants to be the person with signature authority, the parent is the one who gets priority in that. Um, and we do have a, uh, demonstration of what paperwork is required. In a moment, I do see that we have a raised hand.

[00:09:00] Um, so let me take a quick look over to the q and a. Um, what are current limits to able, we’re gonna get to that in just a moment, so if you’ll give me a moment, I’ll get to there. Uh, another question. We have our daughter’s able account already in a bank. How do we transfer to Fidelity able account? Um, so.

That’s an interesting question because it would have to be in an ABLE account. You said they have a daughter, they have an ABLE account, I guess with a different, um, group. So it must be an able account with a different state. ’cause any ABLE account in Massachusetts is done through Fidelity. So, uh, you could roll it over to an ABLE account with Fidelity.

That’s, that is possible. You can roll over able account to able account. Um, is a checkbook or debit card available for an ABLE account? Sort of, kind of, you gimme a minute. I’ll get into the details of that a little bit later and we’ll also be talking a little bit about ABLE versus an irrevocable trust.

And the question was DCF transition out to rep payee organizational. [00:10:00] Um, so yes, DCF can, uh, a child with a disability who’s in DCF can have an NA account and, uh, that can transfer. You can change who the person with signature authority is as they switch systems and, uh. Yes. Power of attorney, Trump’s legal guardian was a statement in the court chat.

And yes, that is true. Um, because especially ’cause we only allow for a durable power of attorney, which I’m going into on my next page. Uh, I think that’s everything we’ve got for the moment. We got a lot of q and a flying through. I’m gonna ask everyone to just, I’m gonna try and. I said move through and then I’ll try and answer as many questions as we can as we go through this.

I feel like a lot of questions will be answered as we do the presentation. So, uh, these are signature authority, uh, document requirements. So the individual with disability doesn’t, of course have to have any documents to, they can open their account for themselves whenever they’d like. Uh, personally with the power of attorney [00:11:00] has to have a power, their power of attorney documentation and submit it to fidelity.

And Fidelity only accepts durable power of attorney paperwork. Uh, if you are a legal guardian, you have to have a copy of the current court document. Now, we have seen a, uh, a problem with a lot of the court documents for, for, uh, legal guardians in that, um, there is a box on the, uh, guardian paperwork that says.

When does this expire? And it’s left blank. And the thought process is that means that it doesn’t expire, but that doesn’t work legally for a financial institution, you need to have something written in that box that was signed off by the courts that says does not expire. So if it is left blank, it’s going to be sent back to you because it is an incomplete court document, uh, for, uh, for fidelity.

So if you were trying to put through a. Piece of documentation as a legal guardian. And there’s nothing in the expiration box on that court document. You are going to have to [00:12:00] go back to the court and have that fixed. Um, spouse, parent, sibling, grandparent, family relations, uh, fraud protections protects the individual if you’re not actually got that relationship to them.

Um, and again, if you’re trying to jump over, ’cause the person with a disability, if they don’t want you to have that responsibility, they’re the top of our list. Uh, but they don’t have to submit any paperwork to us to declare that. So if you are a parent who is also a legal guardian and you don’t feel that anybody is, try gonna try and leapfrog you, it would, it’s going to be a simpler process for you to open the account as a parent than to open it as a legal guardian.

Um, representative payee. You have to have the copy of the Social Security administration documentation granting representative payee status. If it is an entity or an organization or an agency, you’re gonna have to provide that documentation as well. Um, this was actually a question that was just asked, uh, attainable account specific.

So, contribution limits have increased in 2025. Total annual contribution cannot exceed $19,000 [00:13:00] per year. If the individual is not working, if they get to work, they can, uh, contribute more, which I’ll do next. I will say that we have gotten sort of a, a preview of coming attractions that the amount is going to go up in 2026 yet again.

Um, these, uh, these accounts have continued to co to climb over the course of the years that they’ve been around. So if employed the beneficiary due to the able to work act, which was recently made permanent, they can contribute up to the lesser of their gross income or the previous year’s, uh, poverty guideline.

So that’s currently $15,650. So, um, if the individual is working, you know, uh, a part-time job, they earn $16,000 a year. They can put the full 15, 60 50 on top of the 19 per year into their able account. So 34,650. If they’re working very, very part-time, they’re only earning, you know, $5,000 a year at their job.

They can only put 5,000 on top of the 19. It’s up to the lesser of their gross [00:14:00] income versus the poverty guideline. Uh, you cannot contribute the extra amount. You can still contribute the 19, you just can’t do the extra 15 650 if the individual is participating in a retirement account from your employer.

Uh, they have. Similar tax benefits and you have to pick one. Uh, you’re allowed to have up to a hundred thousand dollars in an enable account. This is one of the things that is true no matter what state you’re in, uh, with. Uh, and it is disregarded as a resort and will not affect SSI or any other federal benefit.

Um, the account balance in Massachusetts cannot be added to once it exceeds $500,000. So if you don’t, you’re not concerned with the asset limit, um, then you can keep contributing up until you have $500,000 in the account, at which point you can, you have to stop contributing. But as it is an investment account, it is allowed to continue to grow on its own.

Uh, any amount of able savings up to the plan will not affect bill eligibility. For S-S-I-S-S-D-I housing assistance. Uh, [00:15:00] supplemental Nutrition Assistance program, snap, uh, fafsa, Medicare parts A BCD, uh, savings programs, extra help, Medicaid, all those things are not affected by, uh, by funds. In enable account in Massachusetts, there is no annual account maintenance fee.

This is one of the differences that is between various, uh, programs in various states. Um, attainable mill accounts are investment accounts, so there are investment fees. Those are based on your portfolio that you select, and they’re gonna range from 0.2 to 0.86% of assets. That tends to be significantly less than the return on those investments, so you end up still, uh, in, in the black on the, on those products.

Um, I see we’ve got a bunch of questions in our, in the, in our q and a, so I’m gonna jump through those real quick. All right. Lemme see where we are here. Um, sorry. Like I said, there’s a bunch here and I have to sort of scroll down. Gimme one moment,[00:16:00]

uh, camera roll over our 5 29 account to an enable account. I’m actually going to be answering that in the presentation shortly, but the short answer is yes. The long answer is coming up. Uh, court appointed guardians do not want to become PSA. What’s the alternative? Um, any of the other individuals on that list can become the PSA, including the individual themselves.

Uh, we have our daughter’s able account in our local states ABLE account. Does not matter. Doesn’t matter what state. Can we have her account in Fidelity? What documents do I need? Um, so yes, uh, you can, you can leave it in that state. You can have it in any state in the country. You’re allowed to open it wherever you want.

You can live in Massachusetts and open it in Ohio. You can live in Ohio and open it in Massachusetts. We actually have a lot of people who open their accounts here in Massachusetts from out of state. But, um, if you’d like to roll over, then you’re gonna go through Fidelity. Um, and I’ll give you the contact information for our, uh, attainable team at Fidelity at the end of the presentation, [00:17:00] uh, to make sure that you can communicate with them and they would pro help you with the rollover process.

Um. Can a dual signature be required? I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking here as far as required for what, so I’m gonna ask for some clarification before I answer that to the best of my ability. I started an ABLE account for my son if he ends up going to college or trade school with the amount he’s able to account against him in qualifying for financial aid.

No, uh, it does not count against fafsa. It also does not account against FAFSA for any of his siblings or anyone else in his family. Uh, will the slideshow be sent to us following webinar? Yes. I will make sure that everyone gets all these slides. Don’t you worry about it. We’ll make sure they go out to you so you don’t need to worry about trying to write down everything that I say.

Um. What happens if investments grow past a hundred K without contributions? Need to spend down over what time? Essentially when it goes over a hundred thousand. If you’re worried about SSI asset limits, you’re gonna try and [00:18:00] sort of start treating a hundred thousand like you used to treat 2000 where you do need to try and spend down, you’re, it’s gonna be a grace period.

Uh, but you don’t, you wanna try and keep it under the a hundred thousand dollars mark if you are using it. For someone who is, uh, concerned about, uh, the re receiving the full amount of their SSI, uh, on a, on a monthly basis, uh, how many able account, uh, PSA can have? Um, so. PSAs can be the PSAs on multiple accounts.

We have organizations that do them for many, many people. Um, and that’s really gonna, there’s no real limit to the amount of, uh, a, the, there’s only one able count per individual with disability. But if there is a parent who’s got, like five kids who all have disabilities, they can be the PSA on all of those accounts.

Um, is the account connected against Medicaid buyback? That is a, a [00:19:00] detailed question that I’m gonna be answering a little bit later, and I’m gonna let that come up when I have the slide to, to be able to answer it properly. All right. Um, lemme talk about some of the ways that we really like to see able accounts used, uh, before able act again.

Uh, the individuals are only allowed to have $2,000 in assets, which are reviewed monthly for all expenses, which means that not only if savings are discouraged and unexpected income or routine savings could easily, easily exceed that limit. That would also necessitate a spend down where money had to be spent to get assets under $2,000 to preserve benefits.

Um. Additionally, if you’re in a group home scenario, there are rules in place where that money cannot be spent on something that benefits the household. So it has to be something for you personally. It can’t be anything that holds value because then it becomes an asset. And it also, uh, you know, so you see a lot of people buying a new tv, even though they just, did you see a lot of people buying a new bedroom set?

It’s essentially is people are, are getting rid of money so that they [00:20:00] don’t lose their, their, their doctor, they don’t lose their housing, they don’t lose a lot of things instead of just being able to save that money for something that they truly need. And this is where Attainable can provide a wonderful space for someone because it provides the opportunity for individuals to save for larger expenses without fear.

Things like, I’m saving for a surgery, or I’m saving for a, uh, for a reliable mode of transportation. Or, you know, a lot of other things that might come up for an individual. Attainable also provides a place to move funds so that, so that forced spending isn’t necessary. So again, if instead of when you’re cutting close that $2,000, instead of spending it, you can just move it to attainable and it will again, not count against those same benefits.

So it allows people to save. Uh, I see another hand up. Uh, please. If. Feel free, as you see, I’m, I’m trying to hit the, the q and A as I go, but, uh, also try and make sure that anything I miss, I’ll get to at the end. Additionally, one of the things that a lot of people don’t realize is how much, uh, you can use an attainable account for your education expenses.[00:21:00]

Um, so you can use it for your tuition, your textbooks, any assistive technology you need to be successful in college. Uh, one-on-one assistant trade school. Uh, one of the big things that we see as sort of a, a cliff that happens with individuals with disabilities who are trying to get advanced degrees is up through the high school system.

A lot of supports are staff initiated. Uh, you need the support, you need this device, you need this item. We’re going to get it for you. But once you get into, uh, the, the college system, you need to go to disability services. You need to be able to explain what you need and how, and how, and what you need to be able to accomplish it.

Then oftentimes you need to then take what they provide you and bring it to each of your professors and explain to them. And then if your professors are not following through on those things, you need to then be able to walk back to disability services and explain what’s not happening. It is a extreme, uh, and sudden, um.

Conflict with, with running into a lot of need for self-advocacy, a lot of times [00:22:00] buy you, you, you need to be able to buy the technology or the assistance in order to be able to get through those problems. Where I need a really quality recording device to be able to be successful in this class. I need one of those pens that reads aloud when you drag, drag it across text.

I need a screen reader that works really well for however I interact with things. There are so many things that sometimes just having the ability to pay for the assistance needed can create an opportunity for education equity in addition to whatever is being provided by the college. And we need to confront that that reality takes place and try to provide opportunities to ensure that it happens.

There are a lot of other qualified disability ex examples, uh, for instance. If you’re talking about employment, job related training, tools, certifications, uniform coaching, startup fees, moving expenses when it comes to health, you know, mental health services, medical, vision, dental, uh, rehabilitation, rehabilitation, durable medical [00:23:00] equipment, wheelchairs, you know, walkers, therapy, personal assistance, respite care, nutritional management, hearing aid, you know, prosthesis, screen readers, braille, keyboards, wearable tech.

There are so many things that can make a person’s life better if they have the opportunity to save and be able to access them. And that is sort of the gap that we hope that programs like Attainable can, can fulfill. See we have some more things in the q and a. I’m gonna check there real quick. Uh, can I transfer 5 29 to able, what if the beneficiary is different but part of the same nuclear family?

I’m gonna actually be answering that in a little bit. So I’m gonna let that happen when it happens. Can more than the statutory limitations allowed through an estate distribution? Um, I am not a lawyer, uh, so I am not going to, and so that, I’m not a hundred percent certain on that. So, um, and um, so I’m going to, uh, suggest that we might be able to, if you reach out to me, uh, afterwards, we might be able to connect you with one of our advisors over at Fidelity who [00:24:00] might be able to better advise you on that.

Um, can you move money to an irrevocable trust to not count against SSI 2000 s I’m not understanding the benefits of ABLE versus an irrevocable trust one better than the other. Yeah, you asked that earlier. I promise I will go into some of that, uh, in a moment. Um. You know what? Let’s just jump into it. So trust can cost a lot to set up, and a lot of times they have limitations on how they can be utilized.

Or oftentimes you need to go through a, uh, intermediary in order to get funds from the trust, uh, for approved expenses and what have you. Um, able and trusts are, have a lot of things in common and can actually work really well in conjunction with one another. So if you are going to receive a inheritance, for example, let’s say you’re getting inheritances of like.

$300,000 or something like that, absolutely put it in a trust. Even if you’re getting a hundred thousand, $50,000, it might very well be worth it ’cause it’s gonna, you know, maybe cost you $5,000 to set up the trust. But if you’re only [00:25:00] gonna have $10,000, it might not be worthwhile to you to spend. $5,000 to set up a trust.

Um, additionally, one of the things that you can absolutely do is you can set up the trust and then set up an automatic dispersal from the trust into your able account for things that are flexible spending base. So my electrical bill changes every month. My, you know, uh, my food bill changes every month.

Uh, so having, uh, them say I’m gonna drop $200 to my electric company every month, might not work for a lot of individuals, but if it drops $2,000 every month into my able account, which I can then turn around use, didn’t pay my bills, neither of which the trust nor my able account are going to affect my SSI, that provides me with a lot of flexibility as far as making sure that I, my funds are protected, and also that I can, you know, ensure that I have a quality life.

Um, how do we log report qualified expenses? Is this on a tax form? No. Um, essentially there is a [00:26:00] possibility that you could get audited by, uh, by the IRS. Uh, as far as your spending. Uh, you’re going to essentially want to make sure that you’re keeping records. We’ll go into that a little bit more later as well.

But, um, it is not something that’s going to come up on a regular basis. Uh, do I need a doctor note for medical expenses? Uh, what about alternative medicines such as neuro naturopaths and acupuncture? Uh, you’re not going to need a doctor note. Uh, but again, you’re going to need to be able to essentially, if you are ever audited, be able to justify it to an IRS.

You’re never gonna have to justify it to someone like me. You’re never gonna have to explain it to someone from me. For fidelity, it’s going to be more of a thing where you have to explain it. If at some point say that this was a medical expense or it was a, you know, healthy living expense, it’s preventative care to, you know, an IRS auditor at some point, possibly, and possibly never.

But the point is, is you wanna make sure that it’s in line. One of the things that I often recommend, if you have something that you’re pretty [00:27:00] sure, and it’s something that would really, uh, assist somebody’s quality of life, uh, but you know, might be, you know, uh. In a gray area is, see if it’s something that can be included as a goal in an ISP because that makes sure that you have sort of a documentation from an or, uh, from the state saying that this is something that benefits the individual.

Uh, is there any issue with moving money from a special needs trust to an ABLE account on an annual basis? Uh, know as long as you stay underneath the contribution limit. Uh, what about vacations? Ah, somebody had to ask it. It is the number one question I get asked. What about vacations? So here’s the, um, everybody always wants to know if you can save up for a vacation with an ABLE account.

And the reason that it keeps coming up is that no one has ever been able to give you a hundred percent, you know, solid answer. Um, essentially you’re supposed to be utilizing an able account for, uh. Uh, for, for all [00:28:00] these needs based spending. So I’m gonna give you sort of two answers that work when it comes to vacations.

Number one, you still have the $2,000 outside of attainable. So, uh, which if so, if you’re spending attainable, if you put all your bill money, all your needs money and you’re spending it out of able accounts, that means that the $2,000 can now be your savings for recreation. So that could be your vacation spending, and that also makes sure that you don’t have to worry about any gray area concerns at all on that level.

You know, this is also where you might wanna save up to buy your friend an Xbox or whatever it is. I say your friend in Xbox, because some people, when I used to say by yourself an Xbox, somebody would say, oh, but it’s for hand eye coordination. Okay? Something that is definitively not for you and, and not for, to assist with your disability.

It’s a gift that’s a recreation device. Um, but the point is, is that you can use the $2,000 for anything that you don’t feel meets even, you know, slightly, uh, needs-based [00:29:00] spending. The other thing is, is that once again, explicit, uh, costs in enable account include transportation, housing, uh, so on and so forth.

So, um, again, if you feel comfortable, um, being able to make the argument that the plane was a, was transportation and the hotel is housing, then there’s certainly some arguments that could be made there. And again, then the $2,000 is used to cover tickets in anything that you do once you get there. So I’m not gonna say whether or not that’s gonna make it through, but that’s sort of, you know, the way that I can look at it on an overall basis.

Um, withdrawing from an enable account. Big question I get when I’m doing a lot of tables in the community is, okay, I set up an ABLE account, but I don’t know how to get the money out. Uh, when you want money out of an attainable account here in Massachusetts, you’re gonna be transferred to a checking account.

Savings account. Any bank account that you’d like from any company that you’d like? Um. Now you can trans, you know, there is probably going to be a time lapse if [00:30:00] you’re going outside of Fidelity. So if you went to like Bank of America, citizens Bank, whatever, there’s probably gonna be a, you know, couple business days for money to go from one bank to another bank.

Um, but you’re transferred out and then you can spend it out of that. Uh, once funds leaves the account, if they’re redeposited, they will still count towards the annual limit. So in theory, I could take a dollar and put it in, able, take it out, put it in, take it out, put it in, and I could do that 19,000 times and use up the entire contribution limit with the same dollar.

’cause there’s no way for any institution to track where the money came from that you were depositing, um, funds withdrawn for housing due to other regulations. Nothing to do with us, but I’m just trying to make sure I. Answer every pain point I can in the course of these presentations have to be used with the, within the same calendar month that they are withdrawn.

So if you, uh, don’t pay, take the money out on the 30th to pay your rent on the first, take it out on the [00:31:00] 25th, you know, pay it by the 30th and you’ll be all set, and you won’t have to deal with any, uh, problems from, from the IRS about, uh, about follow that guideline, uh, because withdrawals from an attainable account are an investment trade.

Time should be allowed for the Atta funds to be deposited. Generally that’s about 24 hours. One thing that we found can be helpful to some individuals, there’s no pressure here. It’s not a thing anybody has to do, but we found it to be helpful is that if you set up a Fidelity cash management account, which is essentially a bank account with Fidelity at the same time as you set up the attainable account, you can then use Fidelity’s app and you can just drop money back and forth.

It makes it very, very simple and easy to be able to, uh, to do that again. You’re still gonna have to give it that 24 hours for the trade to take place, but you won’t have to wait a couple extra days for it to then be, uh, move from bank to bank. Uh, it makes it very simple to to, to keep it, ’cause it’s within the same company.

Uh, those cash management accounts do come with a Visa logo, debit [00:32:00] card that can be used at retailers and any ATM without fees. So you can set that, that, you know, uh, that visa debit card to be the card that is on someone’s bills, drop the money over, pay all their bills. It makes things very simple, uh, for the, to be able to, uh, manage that.

You can, you can technically be able to again, uh, write checks in that same way, but, you know. Again, the trades are gonna have to take place. Uh, bonds cannot be directly rolled over into an ABLE account. They have to be cashed out first before they can be deposited into able. I put that in there ’cause I had a couple different presentations where someone asked me, we’ve been saving in a bond for our, in, for our family member.

Uh, can we just roll it over? Unfortunately not. You need to cash it out first. Uh, there are some states in the country where they have a card that goes directly to their ABLE account. Those states also all have annual account fees to pay for that service. Essentially, they are having them do this instead of you [00:33:00] do this, instead of you moving it to a bank account and spending it, they’re moving it to a cash management account and doing that for you in exchange for you paying them on an annual basis for their accounts.

In Massachusetts, we elected to make the accounts not have an annual fee, but that does mean that there’s a little bit more labor for the individuals involved. Opening an account. The first step, you can skip if you want to, which is to go to mefa.org/attainable. Uh, we always like to put that on here simply ’cause we try to keep as many articles coming up and videos and what have you to give any updates to the programs or anything that’s changing with the program as it happens to ensure that, make sure that you guys know everything that’s going on.

Again, that can be skipped if you want. And you can go straight to fidelity.com/able. Um, once you’re on fidelity.com/able, you’re gonna review the Fidelity finan, uh, savings account disclosure document. That’s the big legal document with all the details of how attainable works. I do recommend you download and look at it.

Never ever [00:34:00] take anybody’s word for anything, right? But you, and another thing is we’ve discovered that a lot of people start opening an account and they reach the point where they need to select a investment portfolio. They, I was not ready to select an investment portfolio today. They close out the window, they go and talk to someone that they trust, the investment advisor, or they think about it with their family.

Then they figure then they’re ready, they go back and they have to start all over again to, uh, to open the thing. So I suggest those portfolios are on the main webpage before you start opening an account. Take a look through them, make those decisions before you start the process. Save yourself the effort.

If you are a rep payee, the Social Security Administration requires that you must title the ABLE account to show that the payee has a fiduciary interest in the funds and that the beneficiary owns the funds but has no access to them. Those are words straight from them. Uh, they recommend the account be titled in one of the following ways, beneficiary’s name by rep, payee’s name representative payee or payee’s name representative payee for [00:35:00] beneficiary’s name.

Now additionally, if you lose my my presentation, you lose everything else. Just so you know, on uh, fidelity.com/able. Uh, if you scroll down just a tiny bit, there’s gonna be a picture of a cell phone and it’s gonna have these two phone numbers that you see in the bottom right corner of your screen, 8 4 4 4 5 8 2 2 5 3 and TT Y 805 4 4 0 1 1 8.

Those do not go to the General Fidelity phone number if you Google Fidelity and call them. You’re gonna be in the middle of a very large financial institution, and the person on the phone may or may not know what able is, but those phone numbers go straight to the attainable trained team at Fidelity.

So that’s the phone number to call. If you have any questions about using the account, those are the que the phone number to call if you’re having any problems with the account. And you can also call that number when you’re opening the account and they can help walk you through opening the account as well.

So that’s, that’s your, your lifeline as far as the account is concerned. Anybody can feel free to reach out to me, and I [00:36:00] can tell you about using the account, but I cannot access your account or assist you with it once it’s in place. So you’re going to need to work with Fidelity on that level. You see we have some more questions.

Let’s, uh, take a quick look at those. Um. If we wanted them to pay a portion of the heating bill, would the bill need to be in their name, uh, in-kind support and maintenance generally indicates that they have to pay their share of the bill. It doesn’t have to be in their name. So essentially if they say the heating bill is a hundred dollars and there’s four of you in the house, the individual should be paying $25.

Now if they have the billing information, they could easily pull $25 and send it directly to the heating company underneath your account number and be able to pay their portion of the heat bill and you could pay the other 75. And they’ve now proven that they’ve paid their in-kind support and maintenance.

So that would be how I would perhaps approach that again. On a very generic level because I don’t know everybody’s invol, you know, situation or what’s going on in their lives. So this is just very [00:37:00] general information. How difficult is it to change the essay due to death, mental capacity, uh, aging, et cetera?

Uh, not terribly. Again, that’s a thing you’re gonna wanna go through, uh, fidelity to do. Uh, you’re just gonna have to say, we need to put a new PESA, um, if it is a person who has a legal relationship to the individual, going back to that screen I had a little while ago where we show the documentation requirements, you’d have to provide the documentation for whomever is taking over the, the role.

And you probably have to sign that you’re, you’re leading the role and what have you. Um. Request a copy of my slides. All slides will go out to everyone who’s registered, but I appreciate it. Um, extra contributions of cash into the ABLE account. Is it automatically invested in the mutual fund instruments previously chosen fidelity, or we have to manually buy them?

Uh, you are going to, uh, when you sign up for the account, there are going to be several portfolios and, uh, all funds in the account will, uh, be subject to those portfolios and we’ll go into those in detail [00:38:00] in just a moment. Actually, I think it might be even the next screen if I applied as a parent, but also as a rep payee.

Do I have to title the account in such a way? Um, it depends. Uh, if you want to, you. You are really gonna wanna pick which one you’re gonna do. If you’re a rep payee, you’re gonna have to treat the account differently than if you are a parent. Uh, because as a rep payee, you’re really putting it yourself in as a person who is a representative of, uh, so in connection with Social Security Administration as the person who is, uh, in charge of that person’s asset funds and their conserved benefits.

Um, so, uh, if you, but, so if you are acting as their rep payee, um, and that you’re going to be using, and it’s mostly going to be involving their conserved funds, you might need to provide that information. But if you are a parent, you could just do it and you will not have to title it in that way. All right.

Moving along. [00:39:00] So here are our portfolios. So attainable savings, uh, can be invested in professionally managed portfolios that match the beneficiary savings goals and risk tolerance. We have 10 possible portfolios at, uh, at Fidelity and, uh, with fidelity. Uh, these are municipal fund securities. They’re subject to market fluctuation volatility.

Essentially, it’s the stock market. Be aware of that. Um, beneficiaries are allowed to change your portfolio twice per calendar year. So you can see that we have a wide variety of portfolios here. They run from having 0% in the stock market and everything in sort of short term annuities or, uh, all the way up to a hundred percent in the stock market and nothing in bonds or annuities.

Now you don’t have to put all of your money in one of these. You can divide it up. So you can say, I want half of my assets in a conservative 20% portfolio. I want, you know, 25% of them at 50%, and I want 25% and 70%. So you can break it up if you want to. Um, some people do just put all [00:40:00] their money, say I’m gonna be, most people are in sort of in that middle zone, moderate, balanced, you know, the 40, 50, 60%.

Um, I would just put it all there. I’m good. That’s simple for me, whatever. But you can also break it up as you choose. And you can also change all of that again twice per calendar year. Uh, so if you see something coming that you know you like or don’t like about how things are going, that’s something you can do.

A thing that we often see for people. ’cause there are different ways that people use these accounts. Some people are using them for constant turnover, they’re putting the money in, taking it out, using it for consistent spending. But there are also individuals who use it for long-term spending. I’m saving up for, you know, my life.

Many years down the line, I’m saving up. Or if I’m setting this up for my child, who, you know, maybe they’re four years old with the plan, that they’re gonna take their money out when they’re 22 and they go through transition. So maybe we can buy them a house or a nice condo or something and get them a good start in life.

Um, what do we often see sometimes see folk do is do something where they, maybe they’re a little more [00:41:00] aggressive up until a couple years away from when they plan to use it, and then they slow down and they back it off so that nothing, you know, catastrophic can happen in the stock market that could affect them right before they’re planning on using the funds.

We see this a lot with the, with also like college savings and stuff, where someone might say, all right, we’re gonna be at like 60, 70%, something like that up until they’re like 14. And then we’re gonna start backing it off until, so right before they go to college. You know, we’re gonna be, you know, at a conservative portfolio so that, you know, nothing can hit us too hard right.

Before we, we, we wanna spend the money, but again, that’s not something anybody has to do. It’s just, you know, thinking about how these could be utilized. Um, alright. Attainable accounts are eligible for direct deposit, including SSI or SSDI benefit funds. Direct deposit of a paycheck has to stay under the initial $19,000.

I didn’t make the rules, I just tell you what they are. If someone wants to contribute, the additional, currently 15,650 allowed by able to work, you have to cash your paycheck and put that [00:42:00] in yourself. You can’t direct deposit it in. Uh, direct depositing into an attainable savings account is just like any other account.

It requires a routing number and an account number. Because it is an investment account, sometimes the number of digits on the account don’t fit in the digits that you’re given in that direct deposit form from your boss. Um, it can do it, but you might have to talk to HR for them to understand that yes, even though it doesn’t fit, it still works.

Um. I believe Department of Labor standards currently say that you can, uh, split your work income up to, to like five places. So, you know, I’m gonna put some into my checking account, some into my savings account, some into a credit union where I have a loan and some into my attainable account, no problem.

But SSI and SSDI have to go into only one account. Um, now, so, and if so, if you don’t want all of it to go into able, all of it is gonna have to go somewhere else, and which could be the cash management account. Uh, and then you can, uh, put the amount that you want into able afterwards. [00:43:00] Uh, you can also pre authorize a financial institution to automatically transfer part of that funds.

Just be aware that SSI has their own spending rules and we’ve just gone over ables spending rules. So if you put s conserved funds into an ABLE account, you have to be sure that you’re keeping track of that. Um, and that, you know, they’re gonna have to follow essentially both sets of rules. Um. You do not have to contribute to an attainable account in any kind of regular way, but as it is an investment account, it does best when it’s growing.

We have provided a, the opportunity for a person to set up a systemic, uh, systematic investment plan. So you can put like $15 a month, $45 per quarter is one of the ones we defaulted in, but there is no requirement for you to do that. You can open the account with $0. You can open the account with $1. You can open the account with $10,000 if you want to.

It’s really up to you. Uh, re record keeping. Uh, this is a big one for a lot of our rep payees. SSI [00:44:00] Payees are responsible for keeping records on how they spend or conserve benefits. That’s always been true. Um, again, I can’t say if the $500 you gave me came from Social Security or if it came from grandma or it came from your workplace.

If you get, if you put $500 into the account, we don’t know where it came from. If it came from SSI, you need to know that $500 of SSI funds are in the ABLE account, especially if they’re mixing with other funds. So if you’re mixing benefit funds with other things, you have to make sure you have a very clear bookkeeping of how much came from the Social Security Administration because SSI funds have their own spending rules.

So, uh, make sure that you’re still tracking that, even if they’re in able. So even if you’re doing it regularly, make sure that you’re tracking that. Um, now the Social Security Administration says you should keep those records for at least two years. I worked in residential, I worked in employment, I worked in, I, I was a DDS contractor.

I’ve done all this, I did all this for more than 20 years, and all my Quest audits always [00:45:00] went back at least three years. So that’s what I say. Uh, so again, due to how they tend to audit, I tend to say keep at least three years. Generally, what I would say is get them one of those accordion folders, label each of the slots in it.

Uh, one of those, uh, categories that we put down for, uh, you know, uh, qds, you know, this one’s health, this one’s, you know, uh, transportation. So just drop the receipts in there and, um, keep three of them and rotate them every three years, and you’ll be in the good. And that’ll also make sure that in case anytime you get an IRS audit, you can also justify that as well.

Um, taxes, fees, and non-qualified expenses. So this is what happens. Mostly these only apply if there is investment growth on the account and you spend the investment growth. So, for example, if I put a hundred dollars, uh, you know, a month into the account for 20 years, that’s gonna be, you know, $24,000 if I threw it under, under a mattress, right?

But, um, if I put it with [00:46:00] a 6% return, it’s gonna be like 42,000 in change. All right, so that extra $20,000 is mostly what they’re concerned about the growth on the investments. So withdrawal is made on the non-qualified disability expense. Again, I bought a bunch of my friends’ Xboxes. Uh, the account owner may be subject to both regular income taxes and a 10% penalty on the earnings from the investment.

The reason for that regular income tax is being thrown in there, and as mentioned down here, is that there is no income tax on investment growth on these accounts. So as long as you’re using them for qualified disability expenses, there’s no income tax on the, on, on, on that growth. Um. Uh, there are two circumstances in which they will not, uh, put a, a penalty on you.

One, if their, uh, distributions made after the death of the beneficiary to the estate or heir or legacy of the beneficiary, or if you are paying back, uh, the, uh, the, the government because they gave you too much money. [00:47:00] Um, due to the, uh, able Financial Planning Act provided the beneficiary is the same on both accounts is one of the questions we got a couple times already, or one beneficiary is a family member of the other.

It is allowable to transfer funds from a 5 29 college savings plan into an ABLE account without incurring any taxes or penalty. This is a thing that was originally due to end at the end of this year, but has been made permanent. So this is something you will be able to do, but you still need to follow the contribution limits.

So you’re only able to roll over $19,000 per year from 5 29 into a 5 29 a. Able account owners who meet certain criteria can receive a saver’s credit on their federal taxes for contributions into an ABLE account. Individuals are eligible if they’re 18 or older, not full-time students, and not claimed it is a dependent on another person’s tax return.

The credit received is currently 10 20 or 50% of contributions up to the first $2,000 that are contributed into the ABLE account based on the individual’s

adjusted [00:48:00] gross

in

Adman Hartwell: 2027. Um, as long as withdrawals are spent on qualified disability expenses. This is what we mentioned earlier, attainable account growth is federal income tax free. So again, if I did the a hundred dollars a month for 20 years, um, that extra 20 grand I mentioned a moment ago, there’d be no income tax on that.

I see that we have a bunch more questions. Let’s take a quick look at those. Just confirming if the opened, if the account was opened. As a parent, no title is needed. If opened as a rep, payee need the title. Yes, that is correct. Uh, an adult with intellectual impairments inherited $19,000 with no family left to help them.

The fidelity of someone who can assist to help establish and administer the ABLE account. Um, no, we don’t have [00:49:00] a, we don’t have the ability to provide an advocate, uh, for that individual to help them, uh, make sure that they are, um, you know, administering their funds. They’re going to want, uh, someone either, you know, if they have, are, uh, working with an organization that is their rep payee, uh, if they have a, uh, trustee, if they have a, uh, an attorney who has got their power of attorney, if they have a, uh, assigned guardian, that would be the person who would be assisting with.

And, you know, monitoring their, their spending. They can use able funds to pay someone to do that job, but Fidelity doesn’t have someone on hand to be able to do that. Um, so the maximum contributions of 19 k plus 15, 5 60 plus any, uh, no. Um, the, the SSI deposits are also, uh, a part of the contribution limit.

So if you’re putting SSI deposits in, it’s part of that 19,000. Um, [00:50:00] so, uh, the, the contribution per year is $19,000, no matter where the money’s coming from. If it’s coming from SSI, cool. If it’s coming from grandma, if it’s coming from work, if it’s coming from anyone that, that, it all counts as far to that 19,000.

Are there rules for how to attribute SSI versus personal contribution spending from able? Or if I say it’s SSI funds, that’s what it is. Um, if you put some of your conserved benefits into the ABLE account and they are mixing with your personal funds, you just need to keep track of the numbers because the Social Security Administration is aware of how much money they gave you, and they will expect the records to show that you spent the money in accordance with their rules.

Uh, you can put some of it into able to be used for spending in accordance with their rules later, but you are still going to be responsible for ensuring that those, those funds which will be tracked by them, uh, are following those rules. If someone has a rep payee assigned by Social Security [00:51:00] Administration, can a person manage their own ABLE account?

Could a family member assist or does the rep payee have to manage the able account Rep Payee is the bottom of the hierarchy. Uh, they certainly do not have to be involved with the ABLE account at all. The individual can absolutely have the account completely separate. Rep payee. Up until a couple years ago when they were also given permission to open and administer and be a PSA for ABLE Accounts was a purely Social Security administration designation.

So at that time, before this existed, the rep payee was only in charge of conserved benefits funds That came from the Social Security Administration. If a person was working, making their own money and putting in their checking account, the rep payee had nothing to do with those funds. So, um, if the rep payee is put in a position where they are the person with signature authority over the ABLE account, then they’re gonna be in that, in that mix.

But if they are not, then they’re not.

Uh, can I move money from an able account to a special needs trust? [00:52:00] Um,

I’m trying to remember if you could move it in that direction. Uh, I believe you can, uh, because it is your funds and you could take ’em out and spend them in, in, in that way. Um. It’s honestly, it’s not a question that’s come up to me before. Uh, it’s always, usually the other direction because special needs trust can hold so much more money than able accounts do when it comes to limitations.

So almost always the questions are always about how if special needs trust can come towards able. Um, but yes, I believe you can also move it in the other direction. I believe I read that. Um, but I will also double check on that and make sure that I’ve, I’ve got, I’ve got that correct. Is there a similar re record keeping needed if on SSDI?

No, SSDI does not have, uh, anywhere near as much record keeping as SSI does. Just on a general basis. I’m not a benefits expert. Um, I’m aware of these things from my history of working with developmental disability communities. Um, but um, yeah. Uh, one of the things I do generally [00:53:00] recommend people whenever they’re doing, setting up anything financials, make sure that you’re having a consultation with a qualified benefits counselor.

Uh, we have a really strong relationship with Work Without Limits, which is a free nonprofit here in Massachusetts. Uh, you can go to Work Without Limits and set up an appointment with a benefits counselor. Uh, they have what are called Cwic, um, which are essentially a person who’s g gone through a testing and.

Process where they get a level of clearance so they can check the specifics of exactly what benefits you’re receiving and can tell you exactly how they could be affected by things. It is a wonderful service and I recommend it to anyone who you know has the time to do so. Essentially, you’re gonna go on their thing, you’re gonna fill out their forms to give them permission to do that, and then you’ll, you’ll usually have a phone appointment with them and, uh, they’re brilliant and they’re great at it, at their job, so Fantastic, uh, service to be off of.

Uh, are able withdrawals generally state tax free, or depends on state? That’s, I think largely gonna depend on state, but um, yeah, I mean it’s one of those things they’re [00:54:00] income tax free. Um, there is no ta uh, I’m trying to figure out how to answer this. The, the, the, the, I’m working myself with the question here.

Um, you already paid taxes on these funds. Uh, you paid the taxes when you got the income, so you, there you, when you, when if you did work, you paid income tax on those funds already and then you put them into able, right. You, there’s. The taxes have already been taken out. Taken out. Uh, so the withdrawals would be, it’s like taking money out of your savings account.

There wouldn’t be a tax put on the money you took out of your savings account. Um, unless you’re, you, it’s the growth on the account. So the growth, remember, is income tax free unless you use it for a non-qualified disability expense. So if you once again bought a gift for a friend with the money that was the investment growth from your ABLE account, then you might, uh, be subject to a tax.

Uh, can I use my state’s tax benefit if opened in another state? Um, I don’t under, uh, I’m [00:55:00] not sure what you mean by tax benefit. Um, again, ’cause this is a federal program, uh, gen and generally, you know, there’s not, there’s not taxes on these accounts. Uh, so I’m not a hundred percent certain what you’re asking here.

If you wanna clarify, please, you know. Come back with it. Does Able account have a bill pay feature, like a regular checking account? Uh, no. You’re going to have to transfer the, but you could set up a bill pay feature out of your CMA, your cash management account, and you could be transferring out of your able, like once a month, uh, into your CMA and then do bill, bill paying out of, out of the cash management account.

Uh, is the able account similar to a payback trust where unused funds go back to the government upon the beneficiary’s passing? No, it is not. And I’ll get into details on post-mortem shortly. Uh, are you going to hold an event where we can know more about trust funds like an ex. Funny you should ask. We started a conference three years ago and it is on December 4th.

Uh, registration is currently live. Uh, [00:56:00] seating is li seats are limited, but it is a free conference where we do exactly that. I have an expert on special needs trust. I have a, uh, benefits counselor. I have a person from the college system. I have a financial planner, and we talk about able, and we do a whole day over in Worcester.

We put it in the middle of the state so everybody would have easy access to it. It’s available on our website and it’ll also be at the end of this presentation. Uh, but yes, we currently do this annually for exactly that reason. Uh, can you say the euro for the website you manage mentioned, uh, for, oh, that’s, uh, that’s work without Limits.

Um, I’m not sure their website, it’s, they’re based outta UMass Med, but if you, if you Google Work Without Limits, Massachusetts, it’ll come right up. Um, but I can certainly find that and reach out to me after. I’m happy to provide you with their direct information. Um, the people over there are great. Uh, based on region, you’re either gonna probably work with Brian or Winnie and they’re all fantastic.

Uh. Not sure if it’s answered. Can SSI funds [00:57:00] and SSDI funds be the only source of able account deposits? As long as you have records, no withdrawals as well, you have not exceeded 19,000. Yes. If you don’t wanna put any of your personal funds into it, you just wanna put SSI or SSDI? Yes, you can do that.

Where you put your, where you get the money to put into your account. It’s up to you. Do all states have cash management accounts or is that specific to Massachusetts? Uh, all states have some version of, that would be my general answer. I’m, I don’t know. You know, I’m not an expert on all 49 separate programs.

I, I mostly, uh, you know, know our program here. Uh, but generally speaking, I would say they have some version. Are there transaction fees for transferring funds? No. Uh, thank you. Oh, okay. Cool. Uh, Colorado gives you a tax credit if you contribute to Able, but it doesn’t have to be a Colorado able account. Um.

Once again, we, there are the savers credit I just went over. Uh, that is a, because this is a federal program. Um, [00:58:00] I don’t, I mean, I don’t know about Colorado if they’ve done something special. Um, I’m not an expert again on Colorado, but, uh, it’s possible. Uh, and, uh, I’d have to look into Colorado’s account to answer that.

I’m sorry. I don’t know all the specifics of, you know, every state. Um, so. We’re asking, this is our postmortem thing. Uh, so this is my, my, uh, my depressing, uh, uh, screen. I apologize. So, uh, in the event, after an individual who has an able count has passed, the beneficiary or the person with authority can assign a successor beneficiary in the event of their death, who will receive the account balance in their own able account after all account actions have been completed.

And those final set of words there, after all account actions have been completed are very important. I’ll go over them in just a moment. Uh, the beneficiary, PSA can also assign someone to receive the funds as part of their estate in the event of their death. Who will receive the account balance after all account actions have been completed.

So [00:59:00] in this first instance, it’s someone who could also have an able account, someone with a disability, if you’re sending the money to someone who does not have

Adam Hartwell: a dis.

For me, that’s

Adman Hartwell: not as worrisome as you know. It seems to hit initially after the death of beneficiary. The account will be restricted for 12 months and during that time, the account is subject to Medicaid recapture from any state wherein the beneficiary has lived. So if you lived in multiple states, all those states can have an opportunity to try to recapture funds that are, uh, beyond the premium that they spent for that individual’s healthcare Now.

Before they can do that. This is why it’s not as, as a, as terrifying a phra a phrase as I feel like a lot of people are gonna do before that happens. Any um, [01:00:00] pre-existing outstanding qualified disability expenses are to be paid out of the account first. So, uh, remember health care is in there. So if the person was in the hospital for an extended stay before they passed, all those hospital bills can be paid for out of Abel.

Uh, we need to pay their rent ’cause they were still living in a place at the same time as they were passing. Okay, we’re gonna pay that off. Um, and again, all their funeral and burial expenses. So that is going to utilize or use up a very large portion, if not all of any funds that are in an attainable account for most of the individuals that I’ve worked with in my career, uh, before Medicaid even, you know, tries to go for it.

So that’s one of the major reasons why I am not concerned because that’s where one of the, after all actions have been completed. So again, all actions in this case are spending all, um, paying off any outstanding disability expense that currently exists. Anything on that list that is outstanding can be paid for out of able during that 12 months before Medicaid recapture takes place.[01:01:00]

Another thing I can say, and now this could be changing five minutes from now, so, you know, take it as it is, but at the moment we talked with treasurers across the country, Medicaid is not really pursuing this. Um, or at least they’re not yet. So at some point that might change, but for the time being, it does not seem to be a thing that they are actively concerned with.

Uh, so between those two things, I am less concerned about this than I, than I would be otherwise. Again, it is post premium dollars. Uh, so it’s only, you know, monies that was spent after the premiums. Um, and uh, additionally it’s. Uh, also after all expenses have been paid, I see there’s a question in the q and a.

I’m gonna jump right to there. I opened an account in 2018, would like to add cash management account. I went to fill out the forum online and asked which core position or cash is held Fidelity Government Money Market, or FDIC insured deposit suite program. Is this something that we would need to place a call on?

Um, [01:02:00] you’re getting very specific, uh, and I’m, I’m not a hundred percent certain. I’m trying to do this really quickly. In this instance, what I would suggest you do is call the, uh, the attainable line that we had on, on the screen, and again, it’s available on fidelity.com/able. And also we’ll come out with our slides and talk to them, and they will be able to walk you through exactly what you need in order to be able to, to help you with that process.

All right. Um. Another program that can be very helpful for a lot of individuals is Mifa is working with gift of college.com. Uh, so we now have gift cards that are available at CVS Carland Farm Stop and Shop all across Massachusetts. So there are gift cards that can go directly into an attainable account.

Uh, the newest cards have Mifa attainable on them. The older cards just say Mifa U Fund. They’re for the 5 29 accounts, but they also work for 5 29 a. So if you see any variation of that, that provi is a gift card that can go right into an attainable account. [01:03:00] This also works because it’s gift college.com.

You can go to their website and also be able to give a virtual gift card that will go straight into enable account. No matter where you are in the country and be able to send it to someone. One of the great value here is that an individual is never holding cash. So they can never say, oh, you know, this individual gave me, you know, $500, it’s gonna put me over my spending limit.

If they gave me cash. They didn’t give you cash, they gave you a gift card that goes straight into your able account. So you can never be, uh, you don’t have to be worried about it breaking your asset limit because you got that card. ’cause that card can only go into the protected account. So that can be very helpful for a lot of families that would like, oh, um, your aunt wants to give you some money to help you with your groceries this month.

This is an easy way to do it. Uh, I see that there’s a hand raised. Um, again, please, you know, throw the questions in the, in the q and a and I’ll get to them as fast as I can. Um. Again, I was actually just mentioned [01:04:00] again, I’ll just repeat this. Uh, we do have our third annual attainable, uh, conference coming up, uh, at Holy Cross in Worcester.

Uh, the whole idea was to try and have a full day to answer any and all questions about all things disability finance. Uh, you won’t wanna miss it. Um, so we have subject matter experts. Again, we talk about able, we have a wealth expert from Fidelity. We have disability employment trends being brought by, uh, by one of our, our partners at Fidelity.

We have, uh, work without limits talking about SSI and SSDI and how they work and how they don’t work. Um, we have someone from the college system talking about disability supports and higher education. We have a special needs trust, uh, expert from, uh, plan of Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Um, it’s gonna be a lot of quality information.

We have free meals part of that. It’s free to to, to come to it. It’s a, you know, we, we’ll feed you. It’ll run from nine 30 to four over at Holy in, in Worcester. Please come on down. Uh, registering is, uh, e.org/in person registration for attainable. [01:05:00] Um, and again, you’re just gonna type attainable and you’ll find it there, but if you wanna look it up now or, or you can click on that link when I send this out to you in a little bit.

But either way, uh, we’d love to have you. Uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a thing that we found was very important to what I took over this role a couple years ago. Um, and, uh, we’re always excited to offer this, uh, this opportunity for people to get all their questions answered in the best way possible that we can, which is.

Why we, we put it together? Um, there are a lot of online resources. Again, we’ve got ours at mifa.org/attainable. Uh, the National Resource Center at able able nrc, it’s federal program. There’s a national version. Uh, they get some really great people from like former IRS folk, uh, who do their presentations around tax time and what have you can be very, very helpful.

Um, fidelity naturally has a lot of information. Uh, some people seem to think that we should be in some sort of adversarial relationship with the Social Security Administration. They actually love able programs because it means they don’t have to chase people around about spend downs [01:06:00] or whatever. And that’s not something they wanna be.

Most people who went to work for Social Security we’re trying to be helpful, so they don’t like that they have to chase people at spend times. So they like that there’s an opportunity for someone not to have to, you know, be concerned about that. Um, we also do have a sign up, uh, for our emails where if we hear once again, uh, things like the fact that, uh, the rollover from 5 29 was made permanent, um.

That’s something that was happened fairly recently. Able to work being made permanent, happened fairly recently. Um, you know, a couple years ago when Able Age adjustment was passed. These are things that we try to just let you know about as they occur. Uh, we did some articles recently about, uh, VA access to, to able, because again, uh, VA pension and able work together really, really well.

And when we do the Able Age adjustment, we’re gonna have a very large percentage of veterans who are suddenly gonna become eligible for Able. There’s a lot of things that we try to just keep everybody aware of, uh, coming up. Across all over social media. We’d love to see you there. And you know, we see our information as [01:07:00] we come, as it comes out there as well.

We try to keep everything churn up. If you have questions after I go through anything that’s still in the q and a, you know, 804 4 9 mifa, 6 3 3 2 or [email protected] or you can use the, uh, the little QR code that’s over my shoulder. That’s my direct uh, contact information as well. I always try to answer questions as fast as I can and get to things as quick as I can.

The attainable mefa, uh, email address there that does go to me, so I will answer things to my best of my ability as we go through. So with that, I’m gonna stop the share and I’m gonna open the q and a and we’ll see if anything else has, has come up. If I cannot attend the Attainable conference, will any of those sessions be recorded and available later?

Unfortunately, because those are live, uh, like presentations by a wide variety of organizations, all of which have their own, you know, compliance departments and stuff, we can’t really record them. Uh, but the nice thing is, is every one of those organizations does tend to have information available. Um, so you can certainly just, you know, grab, you know, the people who are [01:08:00] doing the, the conferences and you’d be able to find most of the information.

’cause Work Without Limit has publicly available information. Um, we have, you know, we put videos up regularly online. Um, same with, you know, uh, special Needs Trust. All these things tend to have information available on their various websites and whatever. We just try to consolidate everything into one place for one day.

My state suggests we change our ABLE account from Fidelity to the state supported ABLE Camp. Um. I mean, I really can’t comment on what your state suggests. Uh, you can certainly do so if you so choose. Um, some people choose to use the one that’s in their state. Others. Don’t, uh, I really can’t comment on, um, whether or not that’s a good thing or a bad thing for the state.

’cause you know, there’s 50 states. Uh, can you clarify the 100,000 and $500,000 limits? Yes. So the a hundred thousand dollars limit is before your federal benefits can be affected. So essentially before your SSI would start, or what happens when [01:09:00] you hit $2,000 right now if you don’t have an ABLE account, is every time you go over a dollar.

You lose 50 cents off your benefit. So it’s, it’s a two for one kind of thing there. So if I go over a hundred dollars, I lose $50 in, uh, out of my SSI benefits. Um, so that starts happening at a hundred thousand dollars. If you have able, and you still have the $2,000 as well outside of able, so sort of in a weird way, a hundred, $2,000, $500,000 is the maximum.

If you don’t care about asset limits, you don’t really worry about SSI or what have you. 500,000 is the maximum allowed, you’re allowed to contribute, uh, to the account. So you’re allowed to keep adding money yourself until the account hits $500,000 in the account, at which point you’re not allowed to add money yourself anymore, but the investments are allowed to grow and you’re allowed to spend.

And if you spend down lower than 500,000, then you can start contributing again. Um, I live in New Jersey, but’s still very helpful. Thank. Glad it was [01:10:00] helpful. You know, I, I, once again, there’s the nice thing about it, uh, a lot of these things that we’ve talked about today are applicable no matter what state you’re in, except for some of the caps.

You know, some states the, uh, that 500,000 is actually is 200,000. Some, a couple states it’s as much as 700,000. So it really depends on what state you’re in, um, where, where that ends. But, uh, most of the other information will be applicable no matter. I’m glad that it was useful to you. Um, oh, thank you very much for the, for the compliment.

Appreciate it, Kelly. Um, can you please confirm the date and times of the Attainable Conference? Uh, that is December 4th from nine 30 to 4:00 PM at Holy Cross in Worcester. Uh, please review how a Workplace Retirement Act affects Abel. Uh, I’m not a sure. About the Workplace Retirement Act. I’m, uh, uh, work a workplace retirement account.

Um, if this, so if you are actively contributing to a retirement account, you’re not allowed to [01:11:00] also take advantage of able to work, which is the additional 15,000 plus. You know, once again, that could, that’s gonna change every year. But it’s the, you, it’s the additional contribution you can make above the $19,000 per year that you can put into able.

So if you have a, a retirement account, you can’t put extra money because you’re working into able, uh, there are some legislation that is not passed yet that to. Um, allow people to contribute to ABLE instead of, of, to a retirement account, particularly for people who are working very part-time, but at places that have active retirement accounts that are just, you know, oh, they’re taking 5 cents per paycheck ’cause of how little you work, but you have a retirement account with us.

So instead of being in that, uh, position where people can then, uh, where they have to say, I have, because I’ve got this very small retirement account, people are gonna be able to contribute directly to ABLE instead. Um, so that is, that is legislation that has been proposed but has not passed. But essentially it’s, it’s about the additional [01:12:00] contribution, not about the base contribution.

Uh, it’s that $500,000 in contributions or in contributions plus growth. Um, in that instance it’s when the account hits $500,000. So it really depends on timing. So if I decide, I’m going to put, you know, uh. I’m gonna be in a, like a money market account where it has very little growth and I’m just gonna keep 19,000, dollaring myself up to 500 K over the course of someone’s lifetime.

Um, so it, it could be either or, but generally speaking, it’s gonna be both. Uh, so it’s contributions plus growth, but the idea is that once it hits $500,000, you can no longer, uh, be contributing additional funds. Uh, FI the same $2,000 limits for disability waiver programs. Even if you do not get SSI That’s, that is true.

Uh, the $2,000 asset limit applies to a large percentage of, of programs including S-S-I-S-S-I is just the, the one that [01:13:00] most people are thinking about and therefore I refer to frequently. But you are correct, it does apply to a lot of waiver programs. Um, uh. So that’s everything that was in the q and a currently.

I’m gonna give it just a moment, see if there’s anything else that, that shows up. Um, and if not, then we’ll wrap up. Um, so if there are any other last questions, I’ll give this just a moment. Uh, funds in enable count don’t count as assets for housing voucher. Yes, that is correct. It does not account against hud.

It also does not count against HUD vash, which is the, uh, subpart of housing vouchers specifically for veterans. Uh, but yes, it do. Funds enabled are not assets as far as, uh, as HUD is concerned.

Any other last questions, and again, please feel free to, you know, to make use of, uh, of the fact that that’s my contact information and the, you also saw it on our, uh, on [01:14:00] the slides you’ll receive. If you have questions, you can feel free to reach out to me. I’m very happy to answer anything that I can or to refer to you, to someone who else can.

Okay. One thing that popped up is a nice thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. All right. I appreciate everybody. So we’ve got a bunch of thank yous in the q and a. It’s very kind of you. Thank you so much. Alright, so with that I’m gonna stop the recording and I just want.