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[00:00:00] Documents. Um, you know, sometimes there’s a case where you, the academic profile just like jumps off the screen and then, you know, you’re reading the rest of the file with an excited, um, attitude. Understanding that like, gosh, this is probably gonna make student, we’re gonna wanna offer a space to, um, what else do I, can I learn here?

Um, sometimes you might start with the academics and think like, oh gosh, um. Their, uh, the grades really plummeted sophomore year. Now I know what to look for when I read the recommendations. I really want to look to see if there’s an explanation or some contextual information that will help explain what happened sophomore year, and if not in the recommendations.

Maybe I can look for that in the essay so it does. Not always, but the, the academics, the transcript can provide you a little bit of a roadmap of what you, um, are looking for throughout the rest of the application. That makes so much sense. Yeah. Yep. Let, [00:01:00] let me ask you this. I hear this often and I think a lot of our, um.

Parents, students hear this, uh, the word holistic. So we always hear that colleges like to do a holistic review. Yes. Can you say a little bit about what that is and is that true? Um, and talk a little bit about that. Uh, if you ever, uh, hear me do a presentation and you hear me. Describe our process at Holy Cross, our, our process of reading applications as a holistic.

I, I hope you’ll, uh, laugh or, or, um, raise your hand and say, you said you would never say that. Um, that’s not because it’s not true and holistic just means we, everything is under consideration and schools love to brag about that and, and maybe my school does as well. I don’t know what the alternative is.

Maybe there’s an alternative out there to whole holistic, I guess that’s like, maybe we’ll read some [00:02:00] stuff, maybe we won’t. I don’t know who’s saying that. But the, I think what’s worth understanding though, about holistic review, which means everything is under consideration, that is often misconstrued to mean everything counts the same.

That is not true at most schools. The academic, the student’s academic profile is the most important part of the ACA of the application, and that would be the student’s transcript, which includes a school They’ve attended courses, they’ve signed up for levels of courses and grades earned. It might include standardized testing, if that’s included as well.

That is the, the cake. Um, one of my favorite metaphors, right, that the academic profile is the cake and everything else is, is frosted. Um, so in that, with that understanding, everything is under review. It’s a holistic review, but that doesn’t mean everything counts the same. Um, and I think sometimes. When [00:03:00] families here holistic, they think, well, okay, extracurriculars are just important as academics, and that’s not the case.

Just because those are under review doesn’t mean it’s of equal importance. Yeah. Yep. Have you ever had a time when you were reading an application and in the middle of reading it you said, oh, this student is definitely getting admitted? Um, yes. Um. For sure, for sure. Um, it, you know, and when you work in the world of admissions, right, there’s such a huge spectrum, right?

There’s open enrollment schools, and then at the other end there’s schools where seemingly no one gets in every year. Um, and so, but it all, it doesn’t matter what, which of those schools you work at, you, you certainly had that moment. Um. You haven’t always been right? I mean, I’ve, I’ve had that thought and certainly not been right at times and that, that probably even happened today, uh, during my [00:04:00] workday.

Um, and there are certainly times ’cause, but that’s what’s the, I think the, the thing that we, in the admissions world, understand that the individual applicant doesn’t. Is that it really, and hang with me. Don’t, don’t, don’t cut out after I put say the first part of the statement. It really doesn’t matter how strong of an applicant you are, Alma.

What matters is, is how your application compares to the rest of the pool at that school. That’s what actually matters. So like I say, there’s plenty of times that when I read an application and be like, this kid’s a star, we’re definitely gonna take this kid. Well, if I work at a school that can only offer a thousand acceptances, and I say that 2000 times, clearly I’ve been wrong 50% of the time.

Um, because it’s not the the individual strength of the application that matters. It’s how that application compares against the pool. And so that’s why. [00:05:00] Often, especially, um, I would say most, especially in the selective world, you try not to think that way when reading an application. You try not to think about a decision because what really matters is how that application compares against the pool and you’re only looking at one application at a time.

You really need to have gone through the pool to compare and contrast. Yeah. Yeah. On the, on the sort of negative side, what are some red flags that you might see in an application? You know, I mean, maybe you’re like me, you get these like, um. You get these email, not these emails, these like news articles in your feed that are like five deal breakers to look for in a relationship or like three times, three signs.

You should walk out of a used car dealership and never buy from them. Like, um, I don’t know that there are like red flags. There are things that you [00:06:00] see that may be a out of profile for that student or b. Um, not gonna compare favorably to the overall pool, but for those things, as I said, that’s why we generally might start with the academics.

And then if there are those red flags, like, gosh, grades plummeted sophomore year, or um, a bunch of course changes, classes being with, um, being dropped a certain year, you’ll wanna wanna look for an explanation. Was there a medical situation that year? Was there? Unrest at home was there X, Y, or Z? So I think red flags suggest like kind of, you know, in the, in the relationship terms as deal breaker, right?

Or, um, but these are just things you notice that might be out of profile that you look to understand for context, um, and for an explanation. Frankly, you look for that explanation throughout the rest of the file. [00:07:00] Yeah. Yep. That makes, that makes sense. I hope, I hope you didn’t read that as me avoiding your question.

No, no. Nope. You elaborated, you gave us great info. That’s, that’s, that’s good. Um, let me ask you, let’s talk about the recommendations. What, what can a recommendation add to the application? What can that do that the rest of the application maybe can’t show you? You, you know, I love a good metaphor, Julie. Ah, yes.

Can’t wait. I. I think of recommendations as, as the salt and pepper, right? It, it’s not going to, it’s not there to create an image. It’s not there to, um, right. Create values. It’s there to sort of heighten and season and bring certain things to the forefront. Um, and it’s the, a good recommendation. Let me rephrase that.

An effective [00:08:00] recommendation, um, is not akin to a well-written recommendation. It’s not like come from someone who has a great turn of words or, or some teacher who has to be alumni of the college you’re applying to. What is most important is how well that recommender knows the applicant. That is the key, and I think sometimes.

Students, you know, the, the mistake we see is like, oh, I want that my English teacher to write me a recommendation because they’re, they’re so good at writing. Okay, perhaps. But if the English teacher. Isn’t the teacher who knows you the best, that’s not gonna be the best recommendation. Um, another example of that we often see is, um, well, uh, gosh, my, my uncle was friends with the mayor of my town.

Maybe I can get the mayor to write me a recommendation. That’s never, you know, the, the, the seeking, the impressive resume [00:09:00] of, of your recommender never really makes for a great recommendation because. I think all likelihood they just don’t know the student very well. Sometimes the best sort of extra recommendation comes from the person who has, you know, by some standards, the least impressive resume, right?

It’s the, the, uh, retired lady who lives around the corner for whom you do odd jobs from time to time, the like, the next door neighbor for whom you babysit. Gosh, like you babysit for a neighbor, they’re entrusting you with their kids, like they’ve got some pretty great things to say about you. So, um, the recommendations really can add seasoning, add flavor, bring things to the forefront, but only if the recommender knows the student well.

Some of that is, um. About who you ask to write recommendations, but also some of that is incumbent upon the student to allow potential recommenders to get to know them well, whether that’s your teacher, your school [00:10:00] counselor, an employer, or anybody like that. Um, sometimes you just need to make sure you’ve got people in your world who you’ve allowed to get to know you.

Yeah. Very good. Very good advice. I know we also get a lot of questions about standardized tests, and let’s say we know now that some colleges, some colleges require them, some colleges are test optional. The questions I tend to get. Most recently are about colleges that are test optional, so students can make that choice.

But I guess the way I’ll ask the question is, deep down secretly do admissions officers actually make judgments based on if someone submits a test score or not? So there’s lots to dig in here, and it’s a great question. It’s a great way you ask the question. Um. If you do, if you do not submit testing with your application, the [00:11:00] admissions reader will not guess at what your testing might be.

We don’t think about things we can’t see. There’s just no time to sit back and wonder about rainbows and unicorns and sunny days. Um, if it’s in front of you, you think about it. If it’s not, you don’t. That being said, um, and there are some schools where most of the students who apply don’t submit testing and they have a, like a, you know, a varied level process.

And, um, the same makeup might be true in their incoming first year class. It might be, you know, mostly students who didn’t submit testing and some who did. There are schools out there that are test optional. Who prefer testing, I’m not gonna lie. And if you don’t submit testing, they’re not going to try to figure out what your scores are.

[00:12:00] But it just might be harder to get in without testing. Now there’s not a lot of those schools, um, but there are some. And if you’re wondering who they are. The simple question is to ask of any admissions officer, what percentage of your freshman class submitted testing? Okay. Because if you asked at College of the Holy Cross, we would say like, oh, it was under 50%, you know, always in the 50% area.

And then you’d ever pretty good sense like, okay, like about half the kids, um, in the freshman class did submit testing. Um, I have a friend who works at a school and I did a. Program with him the other day, and he said 86% of our freshman class submitted testing and they’re a test optional school, so that that tells you something about their pool and about how they’re selecting from their pool.

Now, if testing is not a strength for you, that doesn’t mean you should apply to that school and send your testing in. It just means that [00:13:00] you probably, if it’s not a strength, don’t send it, but it’s pretty hard to get into that school without testing. Um, I will say though that most schools for a test optional are authentically test optional and, um, look at both kinds of applications similarly and have probably a, a composition of their first year class similar to what I represented at Holy Cross.

And, um, it’s an easy follow question to ask to really kind of figure out like what your chances might be of applying without testing to that test. Optional school. Yeah. Yep. Okay. So a ask that question. Know that, um, how about the other piece that we get a lot of questions about is the essay. Can you, do you have any examples of essays that were memorable for you and that that made a difference that you think actually made a, made a real difference in the student being admitted?

So, um, essays are absolutely our favorite part of the application. Um, don’t. [00:14:00] Don’t confuse that. Don’t. Run into somebody tomorrow at the grocery store and say, the Holy Cross guy said the essay’s, the, the most important part. It is not the most important part. The academic profile is the most important part of the application.

The essay is our favorite part. It is 650 words. From a high school senior captured at a moment in time. It is a free topic. Um, some of them we read are fun, some, and some of them we read are awful. Some of them are sad, some of them are silly. Some of them are profound and some of them are just fun. Um, we get to sit back in our chair for about two minutes and, um, enjoy the read.

We are not. English teachers who have to write up comments and give a grade and, you know, give lots of feedback and circle the misplaced comma. We just get to sit back and then when we’re finished reading [00:15:00] it, write a few notes about what we thought of it. Um, there really is no good topic or bad topic.

There’s topic students really want to write about, and then there’s everything else. Um, students always write the best essay on the topic that, um. They want to write about. I will. I mean, this is, you’re gonna think this is a plant, but we didn’t talk about this particular question beforehand. Right there, there’s an essay I actually printed out because I wanted to read again.

Um, uh, I read it the other day. What was so great about that? Um, authenticity and honesty. It was a student who sort of like really authentically talked about, um. Yeah. Uh, you know, the, to be specific was a student who comes from a FA family of faith and he was an non-believer and he just talked about like what that was like for him.

That was all, um, it was authentic. It was just [00:16:00] honest. Um, students, we will generally get out of an essay exactly what students feel when writing the essay. I think most students feel bored when writing their essay and, um. If they’re bored writing it, we will be bored reading it. So how you control that is choosing a topic that you feel something when writing, whether it’s you feel fun or you feel meaning, or you feel sad or you feel silly, whatever you feel, we will feel.

So make sure you’ve got a topic where you do feel, um, yeah, the, the, in the end when I talk to students, you know, we talk about essays a lot, and then I use, the last thing I say is. Especially the seniors, it’s not as important as you think it is. It just isn’t. It is worthy of your best effort. Partly because of, um, the role it plays in the application, but also partly because it’s just a moment in your [00:17:00] time where you get to capture 650 words and it will probably have more meaning to you down the road than it has to us as part of your application.

So. It’s worthy of a great effort, but um, the world is filled with all these urban legends of like, oh, did you hear so and so who didn’t get into blank? Just because of their essay? Or the opposite? I think maybe the opposite story. Oh, did you hear so and so got into dance school only because of her essay Now.

That didn’t happen. That’s not how admissions works. Like essays tend to just fit with the application. It’s worthy of a great effort, it’s worthy of our time to read. We love reading them, but it’s not likely to make or break your chances. Well, I think that’s gonna be news for a lot of people because that is another piece that people, uh, I know students stress about.

Yeah. Well, and you know, when we’ve, here’s the, you know, one of the problems is that they’ve, [00:18:00] students have spent their entire high school career writing essays for a very well-known audience. It’s for their English teacher and their history teacher who they know and they understand the expectations, and then they write this essay for an audience they don’t know, and they don’t understand the expectations.

They don’t even understand the assignment that the topics are so confusing. And so it’s that great unknown that. Creates, you know, so much unrest and anxiety when I think if they really understood, like, we just want you to write on what you wanna write and find something when writing it, and we will enjoy reading it.

And it’s unlikely to make or break your chances. Yeah. Yeah. Really. If you were to write, uh, if I were to say I want you to write a 650 word essay today, um, topic of your choice. Y you’re right. Is that what Paralyzing, right. Oh, okay. What do I do? You’re right. It’s para and it kind of should be like [00:19:00] everything about you and, but also like, you know, it’s only 650 words, like it is paralyzed even for us as adults.

So, um, I get it. I totally get it. Yep. Well, I, and I I love your answer. I think everyone else will too. This is kind of shifting gears, but can I ask the question of, um. How much do institutional priorities affect admissions decisions? Um, they can a lot. They can a lot. And this, and what Julie means by institutional priorities is just like, um, the factors that the, that a particular college of university needs to emphasize in a particular cycle.

Um. Those can change from year to year and often do. It can be something as simple as like, I mean, I think the classic example is like, we need more students for the marching band. Okay. That’s like kind of a simple one. Um, like on a larger scale, it could be a state institution that says we wanna increase [00:20:00] enrollment from outta state students.

Um, it might be we need more and more students in the humanities, so we need to like, try to recruit and admit more students in the humanities. So it’s these sort of priorities that, um, that are really only known internally, um, that there’s no real way to position yourself with. But that does help to explain the things that.

That I hear all the time. I’m sure you do Julie as well, which is to say like, well, I have the, I’m just as good as a student, as, as that other student. They got in and I didn’t, well, if you’re in the humanities and you’re a marching band student and you’re from outta state, that made a difference. You know, those are three factors that school was looking at and that made you nothing like that other student.

Um, so that’s where you can have like. Two students with the same GPA get completely different admissions decisions because of how they might match with particular institutional [00:21:00] priorities from year to year. And those priorities can change depending on what round you’re applying in. Um, there’s a lot to think about there.

So that’s, that’s a larger way to say that when we’re reading an application, right, we’re evaluating the student’s accomplishments and their merit, we’re comparing them against the pool. The pool, entire pool of applications in light of what the school’s institutional priorities are for that particular admissions round and that particular applicant cycle.

Yeah. Great. Well, I’m gonna ask a couple of rapid fire questions, just some, some quick answers and then we do have a few questions that I’ll bring to you and um, yeah, we’ll maybe I’ll ask a final question too. Alright, so a few rapid fire questions. In what order do you read? The applications as they come in or, yeah, at some schools it might be, um, they read on, in, in order that the, that the applications are received as their processes and they’re just reading them.

Um, [00:22:00] that is, you know, at some schools there might be incentive there, they might be enrolling as they read. They might be admitting as they read. So you might hear some schools that say like, we’re rolling admission. So there really is a. An advantage to getting your application in early. At other schools, they’re gonna say, oh gosh, uh, we read by, by state or by alphabetical order by the student’s last name.

So, or, or, we don’t start reading until all the applications are in. So it really doesn’t matter. There’s a million different answers to that question. Um, the only way it would really be to your advantage is if that school was rolling admissions and they’re sending out acceptances as they read and they might run out.

Those are kind of few and far between these days, but it’s good to know if one of your schools does practice rolling a mission, then you certainly would wanna send in your application sooner rather than later. Great. Great. Okay. And the next question is, um, how, how many [00:23:00] applications do you or your, your colleagues do you read in a day?

And maybe do you read in the whole year? The, the cycle? Yeah, so it’s a good question. I think, um, I. Often at many schools, there might be more than one person who reads an application. And the there’s a little bit more work if you’re the first person than if the second person. Um, a typical day for me, if I’m only gonna do first read, so I’m only gonna be the first person reading application.

Like a, an average day for me would be about maybe 35 applications. That would be like a good solid, you know. Tail and, and hard hat kind of day. Um, you know, 45 or 50 would be a day where I just, I, I pounded away all day. And, you know, a more, uh, casual day would be in the ish range. Now we have a pretty intensive process to our reads.

Other schools where what they’re, the notes that they’re taking [00:24:00] are much more efficient and maybe shorter. They might be looking at, you know, between 50 and 75 a day on like a pretty average day, um, by the end of the year between applications I was the first reader on, and then applications I was the second reader on.

Um, my number will be, my number will probably start with a two and it will not be in the hundreds. Yep, yep. Um. But the, you know, the more you do, the better you get at it, frankly. And you know, there’s always a little rust to shake off at the beginning of the year. And this does the reading, the application reading process at the school I work at, at many other schools.

It starts in mid-October and doesn’t finish until early March. And it’s takes up a good part of most days. Yeah. Well, I’m gonna just move, we do have three or four questions. Let me quickly ask, um, someone just asked if, if a student had a, a suspension, um, during high [00:25:00] school, uh, how is that looked at during the review process?

If I, if I just. You know, blow that up a little bit bigger to say like, behavior and conduct. Mm-hmm. Um, it can, it can factor into the application. It’s a part of how the school is getting to know the student’s character. Um, I will say that there’s two things to evaluate, right? There is the infraction and then there’s the explanation.

Those are two separate things, and, um. Often the smallest infraction with the worst whiniest explanation can be much worse than a pretty serious infraction with an explanation that really takes ownership and contrition and humility. Good. And a question about does, does each school’s college data set include the number of accepted students who submitted SAT scores?[00:26:00]

I guess as far as I’m understanding that, yeah, I don’t know the answer. Um, understand also that that data set depends on when your student’s applying, would be a year or two behind. Um, it’s a pretty, you know, if you. All you really need to have an understanding there though, is of the, of the handful or more probably schools you’re applying to, and it’s a pretty easy question to ask over email, um, to an admissions office.

You could probably very quickly get that question from, answered in 10 emails to 10 different schools in 24 hours. Yeah, and someone asked, is it beneficial to reach out to an assigned admission counselor their junior year to build a relationship? Some schools it may be, and at some schools it may not be, but even when it’s not, why not?

Mm-hmm. Um, and I think you’ll get a pretty good [00:27:00] read back from the school about whether or not they really wanna kind of establish a relationship. Um. If you, you’ve sent an email to your assigned counselor, you say, hi, my name’s Julie. I’m a current high school junior. I go to Lexington High School. Um, I’m really interested in your college and I’m hoping to visit this summer if that.

Um. School really, really values that relationship. That counselor will respond and say, so, nice to meet you, Julie. Please let me know what day you’ll be visiting because I’d love to meet you with you when you’re here. And if you have any particular academic interest, let me know in advance and I’ll try to set up a conversation with a faculty member.

Yeah, if that relationship is not a big deal, they’ll reply and say, great. Thanks for the email, Julie. Yeah, that’s, that’s good. You’ll learn a lot. Cool. Um. I guess we didn’t really talk about this and there is a question. Can you just say a word about any acceptance advantage to applying early decision? [00:28:00] Um, it depends upon the school, but they’re very well likely might be.

A difference in the acceptance rates between early decision and regular decision at a particular school. And that difference might be that the acceptance rate is much higher. Now granted, the pool tends to be much smaller in early decision versus regular decision. There tends to be a lot more spaces available.

Um. But that’s a great question to ask a particular school, and schools tend to be pretty honest with their answer to say, yes, there’s an advantage. Um, yes, there’s an advantage for housing if you apply ed, or yes, there’s an advantage for merit scholarships or yes, there’s just an admissions advantage, or no, there’s no advantage at all.

Um, depends upon the school, but more often than not, the answer is yes. You wanna say a word about athletics factoring into the admissions decision. Um. That, uh, kind of depends upon, um, the level. At [00:29:00] many schools, the recruitment process has happened well before the application has ever been submitted, and sometimes academics may have already been evaluated if a coach had identified, um.

A potential applicant as a, as an athletic contributor. And so, um, at many schools, the really, the final step is the application. Um, and at some other schools, maybe at a lower level school, um, that may play a role in the application, but more often than not, the athletic evaluation would’ve happened well before the application was submitted.

Right. And then there is a person who’s kind of given you a little dig that essay you printed out is that you’re saying that’s not gonna make a difference for that student. Um, that, that’s, that student is not gonna be offered a spot actually. Okay. Yep. So what you said earlier, great. Yeah, it was a great essay.

I loved it. But they’re not, they’re, they’re actually not an academic match, um, [00:30:00] at our school. Um, couple more and then I’ll, I will, I will just ask my final question, but, uh, this is a good one because, you know, we’re hearing a lot about this and I will share that. I believe we covered this. This is a three part series that I have been, uh, doing with Drew.

So go back and listen to the other ones as well. And I think we covered this, but probably worth covering again. How are you vetting the use of AI in application writing? Um. It is. I got another, I, I might pull out another, um, another metaphor for you, Julie. I don’t know if I’ve used this one on you before.

Right. Have I done the the car engine one with you before? I forget. Okay. All right. You good? You’re good. Good. You’re good. That’s good. Good at pretending. All right. So if, uh, this is better when we’re in person, but on the table in front of us, if I put a, a Volvo engine [00:31:00] and a Honda engine with no labels, would you be able to tell the difference?

I wouldn’t, no. You know, who could tell the difference? The Volvo repair person. Because all they do every day is work on Volvo engines. And if at some point they were presented with the Volvo engine and somebody stuck a bunch of Honda parts in there, it would stick out like a sore thumb to them. But to you and I, not at all.

Here we come full circle. We are Volvo repair people. Mm-hmm. We, the only thing we read is 650 words written by high school seniors. Um, uh, or given the prompts that they’re providing. That’s all. We, we don’t read poetry. We don’t read ninth graders book reports. We only read this. AI is, is skilled at writing.

It is not skilled at capturing an authentic voice of a high school [00:32:00] senior. It is also not skilled at, um, at personal writing. At sort of real, um, sort of like revelatory personal writing. And because of that, um, do we always, are we always able to recognize it? Probably not, but the times where we’re not able to recognize, we just think that essay is kind of flat and kind of boring.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right. Alright. I guess I’m gonna ask, um, my last question of you, which is just what do you wish applicants knew before they hit, submit? A couple of points there that you might wanna share. Um, uh okay. Uh, I think I’ve got a few. Number one, gotta keep ’em quick. Number one, um, the person on the other end really cares like.[00:33:00]

We do this job because we want to admit, and when we open the application, we are looking for reasons to admit. We’re not looking, we’re not, we don’t open it and just go, um, excitedly seeking that misplaced comma or that lower grade in a subject area. We look for reasons to admit. Your audience is someone who likes kids and wants to find opportunities to offer opportunities to bring those kids to their employer’s campus, right, to their college or university.

That’s number one. Number two, I wish, um, what students knew is that there are parts of the application that they can control, and those parts have a great ability to swing momentum. You know, the mindset that students approach their essay with the effort that they put in the classroom during their, you know, junior spring or [00:34:00] senior fall, or, you know, towards the end of their career.

And then how they’ve kind of thoughtfully engaged in the, in the college search, um, application process. Those things really. Can create momentum and momentum works both ways. So I really try to foc um, try to encourage students to focus on, on the parts of the application process that they control, because as a reader it really sticks out.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s great. So I, I just wanna thank you so much Drew for all this honest conversation and thank all of you who wrote in terrific questions. And I will give another plug that. Uh, in this three part series, the first part Drew and I talked about how do you begin this process? How do you just start?

Uh, and last a couple of weeks ago we talked about how colleges know your high school and really understand the, the context, um, around that. And then we have this, of course, which is being recorded. I will, uh, send the recording to you tomorrow [00:35:00] so you can, you can share that with others who weren’t able to hear this and.

Again, come back off into the MEFA website and see all of the other resources that we, that we have for you to help. And, uh, drew cannot thank you enough. Awesome. Thank you, Julie. Thanks everybody all. All right. Have a great night.