Julie Shields Rutyna: [00:00:00] All right, well good evening everyone. My name is Julie Shields and I am the director of college planning education and training at MEFA. And we’re so happy to have you here with us this evening. Uh, we have a great presentation called Six Keys to Finding a Good College Fit, and our presenter is Dr.

Amanda Stir and she’s the president of College on Maed. And she’ll tell you more about how that all came about. Um, but there’s just so much good content in here and I’m so excited for you all. To hear it. Uh, let me just give you a, a, a few logistics. Um, if you need to leave the webinar for any reason, just know that tomorrow I’ll be sending, uh, a link to the recording and to the slides.

So you’ll have those, you can share them. Um, if you want to ask a question, please put it in the q and a and I will monitor [00:01:00] that behind the scenes. And, um, I can, I’ll, I’ll either pop in, um, and, and ask a question during, or we’ll save it to the end, but we’ll get some of your questions answered. All of your questions hopefully answered as well.

And I just wanna give you a plug for, um, you know, continuing to connect with MEFA. We’ve been around since 1982, helping families plan, save and pay for college. And we have a robust website and lots of webinars, um, with, with, um, great. Great people in the community and, and lots to, um, help you with the whole college process, um, from, you know, saving to admissions to anything about financial aid and financing.

So with that, Amanda, I’m gonna turn it over to you and thank you.

Amanda Sterk: Excellent, excellent. Well, let me get my everything up and going here on my side. Um, you know how it is with getting your screens and everything, [00:02:00] and then I will introduce every, everything. Alright,

Julie Shields Rutyna: now I did, I did get a note in the question and answer, um, asking if I was muted and I’m not, but I guess I’m just gonna ask to make sure.

Can, can others of you hear us and make sure, um, put that in the q and a so I’ll know and. It could be that you just have to click okay, so people can hear us. That’s wonderful. So I would say to the person who asked that, I would, uh, go down to your keyboard and just increase your volume. Okay. And someone else said, join the audio and that will make sure.

Alright,

Amanda Sterk: for sure. Thanks so

Julie Shields Rutyna: much. Alright.

Amanda Sterk: That is always important. You need to be able to hear us and, and do it. Um, so thank you Julie for that warm welcome as always. Um, I think we’ve been doing this for the last four or five years coming on talking about some of these kind of critical things, um, that really can help families become more informed as they go through the [00:03:00] college admissions process.

And so, um, really excited to be here. So just a little bit about, um, ourselves and us at College and Maze. We come from a research practitioner background and I was a school counselor, college counselor for many years and had written, um, kind of a curriculum for my own students, just trying to really help them navigate.

High school, the college process. And, um, I had found this amazing research study on college knowledge and college research, and it was, uh, actually written and co-authored by Dr. Tim Pointin out of UMass, um, Boston, and Dr. Rich Lapan, who is outta UMass Amherst. And I reached out to them and I was, I loved all of their content and what they were doing.

And I said, you know, I really have the practitioner side and I have this kind of curriculum I’m building. You have the research. And, um, they teach school counselors how to be school counselors. [00:04:00] So let’s get together and kind of come together and really think about this process and what are families sort of missing as they navigate the high school to college process.

And really what it came down for us was really that essential college knowledge that every single student, every single parent. Needs to have to be able to be successful throughout the process. And what’s more important is that it’s scaffolded in a way that really breeds success, right? That the, you feel confident, you feel secure, you feel like you know what questions you’re asking.

Because as like Julie says, and I’ve been on the MEFA website and it’s phenomenal, but there’s also college board out there. There are so many resources and so much kind of thrown at you today that it’s hard to sort of distinguish. And you have some of the really high flying kids that, um, you know, are maybe a little more intense.

So they have different aspirations. Maybe your student is [00:05:00] looking at a community or technical college, uh, maybe you’re looking at a four year university or looking at different two plus two programs. There’s so much out there. And so really we wanted to scale it back and be like, what’s the information you need to know at each step of the way?

How can we walk families through that? So that’s where College Maze really came into, um, kind of creation. And what we did is College Maze is actually a student facing workbook. Um, any student in a family can pick it up, um, wherever you’re at in the process, whether you’re even middle school or ninth grade or a junior.

Um, looking at the next junior to senior process and what that looks like. So we have two main sections of the College Maed book. The first section is really about building those essential skills and abilities that is, um, beneficial as you go through the process and what colleges are looking for. So that’s really building what we call your U [00:06:00] factor and kind of what makes you unique, your academic factors, whether that’s through dual enrollment, ap or different programming.

Like what does that look like? Uh, your career factor, really exploring your values, your interest, your abilities and and your knowledge of work and how does that come together. And then we also put money, money factor, early end of the conversation. ’cause I don’t know about you, but money was a factor and still is a factor in, you know, my own children’s college.

Going process, right? So some families are able to kind of write the check to wherever, and that’s great. And a lot of us have to budget and we plan and we think about what’s the return on investment. So we want that conversation to be early in the process, not waiting until senior year. And then the second half of the book is a process we’re gonna be talking more about tonight.

Um, calling, calling it leads. Um, it’s how do you build your college list? How [00:07:00] do you explore colleges? How do you actually apply? What are some of those kind of things that you need to do to make sure that you are putting your best foot forward and what colleges are looking for? And then we walk you through an actual decision making process.

How do you determine what’s a better school for you as a student, as a family, and so forth? And then lastly, we have the S in leads, which is success. And that’s really how do you develop a plan to be successful once you go to your post-secondary education. So through all this, again, like I said, whether you’re going to a highly selective school and that’s your path, whether you’re looking at a community college or technical college, our belief is.

Anybody looking at post-secondary education needs to go through this process to make sure that you’re making an informed decision and are really, um, being successful [00:08:00] throughout. So just a quick little thing. This, um, I talked about college knowledge and how important that was. And it is interesting having, you know, being a, a college counselor, a college advisor myself, where I see families sort of misstep, right?

They missed something and now we have to go back and fix it, and things like that. So again, that scaffolding process of your knowledge is really critical. So we actually mapped it out. If you are, um, a school counselor out there and you want some of these maps, you can also find them as downloads on our website.

They’re free. Um, same with, if you want like a poster, we have a big 18 by 24, but it really breaks down each step of the process. What’s that essential knowledge that you need to know, um, throughout. So I’m just gonna show you the next one. Leads is the same thing. Like I said, um, the lead strategy in itself is really kind of what we’re gonna be talking through, um, this evening.

And more [00:09:00] specifically, looking at something called the six Keys of College Fit. And how do you look at each of the keys as you go through the list building stage when you’re exploring colleges, like you’re visiting on campus, you’re watching the webinars, you’re doing the tours. What are those kind of essential things that you need to ask and do to make sure you’re getting all the information that you need based on your student?

Um, and what type of, you know. Programs and, um, goals your student has that application process, that deciding factor, and then that succeeding, um, at the end. And like Julie says, if you do have any questions throughout, feel free to throw them in the q and a and she will be happy to, um, raise your hand. Let me know that you have a question and I’ll definitely try to leave a few minutes at the end as well.

And you can always email me. Um, my email’s just a stir at, uh, college mas.com. I’m always happy to answer questions, um, [00:10:00] if I don’t get the to them this evening. So the first thing that I want you to do as a family, one, if you are a parent and your student’s in the other room, you should be like, Hey Johnny, come on over here and sit with me on this.

’cause this is really important. If you’re just a student and your parent’s not here. To have your parent come, but this is really best watch when the both of you student and parent together. Um, when you guys start having these conversations and start framing them in this way, it’s gonna be a lot easier to go through this process.

So the first thing that we need to talk about, and I hear this all the time, they’re like, well, what is your college fit? What fits you as a student? They’re 16, 17 years old. Most students can’t really articulate what their dream school is beyond Oh, that’s really cool. Or, I really like their football team, or, um, they seem like they have a good engineering program.

So what happens with fit in college fit? And that’s why, [00:11:00] again, this term is kind of used a little too loosely, I think within counseling and so forth is my fit could look very different. Then the students fit. What happens if they’re looking for athletic recruitment? What happens if money is really a factor?

Um, and so what happens is when you are looking at the same situation, if you’re looking at it, um, differently, that’s where problems are gonna have. And you can see here the picture, the gestalt psychology here. Um, some of you might see the vase. Right, the black portion of the picture. Some of you might see the, the faces and one’s not right over the other one’s not wrong over the other.

It’s just you’re seeing the same thing from a different way. Are you seeing the black part or the white part, right. Or do you see it as a whole because you’ve seen this before. Um, so that’s what fit is and a lot of times when families start going through this process, [00:12:00] my own family included is my daughter’s looking at one aspect of the college.

I’m looking at a different aspect. And if we’re not communicating or understand how we’re looking at that fit. Then we’re going to be missing very critical conversations. So tonight, the idea is to give you some different lenses or perspectives. So when you look at a college, you’re gonna be more informed, more data-driven, and you’re gonna be able to kind of move a little bit from that emotionality that sort of like, oh, I just really like it.

But you can’t explain what you really like. If you’re making a big decision that you’re gonna make this big investment, you need to be really clear. X, Y, Z is why this college is a better choice, or this one is a better choice. So let’s kind of get into it. So the six keys of college fit, this is one of my favorite graphics, and the graphics that are all here, are actually what’s in the College Maed workbook.

We love [00:13:00] graphics, we love breaking down really abstract, big ideas into very manageable. So you can look at one picture and you’re like, oh, that makes sense, right? Um, and then within the book we’re, we delve more into each of these. So the six keys of college fit. As we looked at different universities and we thought, how can we kind of group ideas that are either, um, mostly quantitative, so what are some ways that we can really look at the data and the information?

But then there might be some qualitative things. You know, there might be some questions we have to ask because it’s not really a data point, but what do those kind of big ideas come around? So the first one, which I think a lot of people focus a lot on is the academic match. So academic match, think about.

Basically, can I get in, do my A-C-T-S-A-T scores match what they’re looking for? Does my GPA sort of match what I am? What’s the selectivity on that? Right? Is it really hard to get into, [00:14:00] is it kind of open access? Um, what’s the size or the student to faculty ratio? What type of programs might be available?

What’s that size? So it’s really kind of the academic side of the house and who I am as a student right now. Does that match with where I am? I want to go career match. Kind of self-explanatory. So that is, once you get there, what are they going to do to make sure that you, um, are gonna have a job at the end of the day?

Right. What does it look for? A career placement? They’re alumni network, they’re mentoring, they’re internships. Um, my daughters a freshman up at the University of Florida. Everyone’s required to do a careers class. It’s a one credit career class and everyone takes it. Sometimes some universities, it’s really hard to get into, um, an internship or a research opportunity.

I had somebody from a large, um, northeast school reach out and their son was trying to get into, [00:15:00] uh, an internship and really there was no big support at the school and they were pretty disappointed that we’re paying all this money and we thought the school would be really great and they just were not getting anywhere.

So what does, what does that college offer in terms of career opportunities, financial match? Now we know, we hear a lot about those sticker prices, right? Things are going up. Several schools now are over a hundred thousand dollars per year, but for the most part, Publix are still reasonably cheap. Um, much cheaper than that.

Community college is the cheapest, right? Um, so can I afford to go to that college based on their average net price? Their scholarships, um, maybe they’re the grants and loans that we have. Do I need to, what’s the debt look like? So that’s really important. If I go to the school, what happens? I just got a, a phone call from a parent.

Their student got into, um, a kind of a [00:16:00] selective art school, and the parent’s like, it’s $50,000. They expect $25,000, um, in the first year or like that, we have to pay 25,000 and then $25,000 a year in loans. And so we had to have a real conversation that that’s the average. What families pay at that school is about $50,000.

And they were gonna try to appeal the aid and we started looking at the data and, and what’s the averages, what’s going on? And I’m like, you’re probably not gonna get much more money. And so now as a family, you have to decide are you gonna pay $50,000, um, you know, every year. Right. Um, so that’s again a family decision.

So understanding financial match, but you can walk. And that family, like I said, it was just kind of a phone call. Somebody had referred them to me. Um. You can find that information out and I’m gonna show you later, you can find out what those averages are. So when you start this [00:17:00] process, instead of just looking at that kind of blatant sticker price, it’s like, oh, that’s really expensive.

Look at actually what most families pay at the end, and I’m gonna show you how to do that. So definitely stay and watch that personal match. This is another area that students really gravitate towards. That’s kind of the feel of the college, you know, the diversity, where is it located, uh, what are some of the recreation options?

Uh, what are the living arrangements? Is it rural, big city? What does that look like? And, um, again, academic match and personal match is kind of where students gravitate towards the most. As parents, we kind of gravitate towards career and financial match. Um, but all of them matter. The other two are just as important, and I don’t think they’re discussed enough.

Um, student outcomes. So student outcomes are really the ways that we can determine if a college is doing what the college says they’re to do, which is to graduate students. Our grad students graduating on [00:18:00] time. Uh, that’s graduation rate. Retention rate is how many students actually started as a freshman and go back their sophomore year.

That’s kind of like a satisfaction rate, right? So if you think of five stars on Google, are people getting five stars or they’re like a four scale, or they like a three scale, right? Right. So retention rate’s really important. How many students feel comfortable on campus and they go back, that’s a big indication.

Um, alumni salary. So again, if the, if the job of a university is to get the student into a career. Are they getting into well paying jobs? Um, what does that look like? And then also loan default rate. Um, that’s gonna be a little wonky of a data point because of COVID. And when they stopped, um, getting some of the, um, some of the loan repayments was kind of stopped for a while.

But the loan default rate is how many people have taken out loans and [00:19:00] can’t afford to pay them back, so they’re defaulting on their loans. That’s not good, right? So the idea is if you take out loans that you have a high return on investment and that you’re able to pay that loan back and you make more money than the loan is and so forth.

So loan default rate’s actually a really important metric of a university. And lastly, but not least, definitely lastly, um, is student support. And I think this is a very underlooked. Part of kind of the university selection process. So that is once I’m on campus, how is the school gonna support me to make sure that I am successful for graduation, for retention, for all those things.

So what tutoring’s available if I get into Calc two or Orgo Chemistry, organic Chemistry, and I get into those upper division economics classes or whatever they may be, and I need help, what does that look like for me? Um, what about labs and different [00:20:00] tutoring services? What about counseling? If you think one in four, um, young adults have some type of mental health, um.

Issue in their lifetime. You know, we wanna make sure my daughter is six hours away, I can’t show up very quickly ’cause you’re six hours away. And so can they go in and talk to somebody? What does that look like? Does it take just a day or two or does it take months to get into a counseling service? And another one, um, again, about 25 to usually 30% of universities, um, their students have had like a 5 0 4 or an IEP.

And so those do transfer under adaptive services or the a DA, which is a federal law. And so you want to know that if my student does have like a 5 0 4 and gets accommodations for whatever that may be, what does that look like at the college? Right? And how easy is it to get those accommodations? And then again, um, [00:21:00] how do they sort of get involved within, uh, community service organizations and so forth.

So those are the different six keys. So what we’re gonna do through the leads, um, process is kind of walk through and see when the best times are to look at each data point to making sure that you are assessing the university on all of these metrics, not just. Can I get in? And what does that look like?

It’s, can I be successful? And like I said, you know, as you go through this process, what’s important to you as a family might be very different than what’s important to me, right? Or your student versus mom versus dad, versus grandma versus whoever. So it’s really important to have this formal discussion and to assess everybody’s kind of, what are the most important things.

And so if a student is kind of feeling overwhelmed, this gives you a focus, okay, let’s find [00:22:00] schools that do X, Y, Z. Or if you’re not really engaged. Maybe instead of being, um, too much, maybe, uh, we can just look for one factor. So there’s two things that we have you do. Um, one is we have a really cool card sort and all those kind of bullet points that I listed out, like academic, um, admission, selectivity, things like that are on these individual cards.

And what’s really fun is the student should do it, and they put what’s the most important to the least important, and you find which card and which column does that go under, and then have the parent do it. And what’s really neat as, as we found when families go through this process, do it multiple times.

So for example, my daughter and I, we were deciding between two schools and I said, okay. Let’s get out the cards. And so we said, um, you know, one was kind of a liberal arts, [00:23:00] smaller school. And we’ve said, okay, this is this school. Let’s see. And this is the, the, it was a bigger university, so she’s technically at University of Florida, which is what she ended up choosing.

And she was really, um, passionate about the small liberal arts. It was in Massachusetts, I won’t say the name. Um, that she was super passionate. It was cute. There’s snow compared to our palm trees. You know, everything that Florida’s not this college was. And we said, okay, you can only pick one. Which school has the better X, Y, Z?

Which school has the better? And she was shocked that for her. That the school that maybe she kind of minimized a little bit, actually had the, most of her six keys were there. So, um, the card sort is amazing. We also have it completely free as a, um, it’s like Arab, a drag and drop, like a little card sort, an online card sort.

So if you go to college on mas.com and you go to my [00:24:00] CFP online, um, it’ll be right up there on the resources. You can do it yourself. So really look at what’s important, what’s not important, and I would jot some notes down, right? And as a family, if you can do this now, you can start seeing again, what are, are you on the same page?

Are you completely separate? What’s important to each of you? And then you can have that conversation. So in the list, so when you start this process, so let’s say, I don’t know how many, um, I, I guess I don’t have like a, a chat feature. Um, I don’t know if most of you are ninth and 10th grade, or most 11th and 12th.

So let’s kind of start in the middle of 10th and 11th. So let’s just say 11th grade parents. Right now you’re starting the process. You’re starting to kind of look at universities. Maybe you’ve done some college visits, uh, maybe you’re just kind of starting to see what schools are out there. So as you start building your list, we don’t.

Want you to do every six key all at once. ’cause you saw those [00:25:00] data points. It’s a lot, right? It’s a lot of information. So as you’re building your list and you’re using programs like College Navigator, the college board, um, some of those kind of CapEx type programs or search functions. Pretty much you will find those have personal match, career match and academic match as the selection aspect.

So how far is it from home? Does it have a sports team? What is their normal range of A-C-T-S-A-T acceptance? What’s, um, you know, is it rural? Is it urban? Is it 10,000 students versus 15,000 students? So most of the search functions that you find will be personal match, career match, and academic match. We suggest you start there first.

And here is an example. So we use college navigator, um, college navigator’s, completely free. It’s run by the federal government. It’s not pretty, it [00:26:00] doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of some of the, um, other programs that are like a company. So, um, think of like a college board or CapEx or a niche or things like that.

So it’s not pretty, but it’s got tons of information. So you can see on this, the search function is asking those. Um, if I go back real quick, you’ll see personal match, career and academic match. So start there. So start using these functions, start kind of looking down. And here, this is where you can start finding, quote unquote a list of schools.

That might be a great, um, place to start, right? So if you’re overwhelmed, think about these. Go through those six keys, and then start using these search functions to really try to maybe find 12 to 15 schools that you want to explore more, right? And don’t worry, your list that you start today, whether you’re a ninth grader or 11th grader, um, it’s gonna look different by the [00:27:00] time you actually end up.

Applying things change. You learn more about yourself, you learn more about programs. You learn what’s important to you. So allow it to be flexible, um, as you go through that process. Okay, so let’s talk about the explore options. So now in explore, we want to start actually doing the research of the schools.

This is when you start actually going to college campuses. This is when you start watching the webinars. This is when you start really talking to people of, oh, you went to the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. Tell me about the campus. What did that look like? Oh, you went to Williams. Tell me more about Williams and what you liked and what you didn’t like.

Oh, you went to NYU. Tell me more. You go visit on a trip. Um, I was just talking to somebody at a conference I was today, and they’re like, oh, we’re going out to California and we’re gonna stop by, you know, Harvey Mud and uc, Berkeley, and just started listing [00:28:00] things. They’re like. We’re not really interested, but we’re going on vacation anyway, so we wanna go check out these schools.

Fantastic. That’s the explore portion. My suggestion, and one of the things we have in the Explore book or in our College MAs book, is we actually have a list of questions under each of the six keys of college fit that you should ask. So if financial match is really important to you, or if career match is really important, then that’s when you go to those, do those tours.

You should be asking more specific questions. Don’t be just a willing participant that just kind of walks around and be like, oh, that’s a nice building. Oh, that’s a nice dorm room. Oh, that’s really interesting. That’s the time to talk to admissions, talk to students, even if it’s a student representative.

Ask them questions to explore more than what you’re gonna find just on a website. For example, if your student has a 5 0 4 and you are visiting, um, the University of [00:29:00] Massachusetts, Boston, let’s say you should go find their a adaptive services and say, all right, tell me about the services that you have here at the school.

I wanna know more. That’s the depth that you should do and explores to really ask the questions, um, and not just be sort of surface level. So we’re really gonna start looking into a little bit more, am I the student they’re looking for? Um, what are the different program sizes? Um, what are those career opportunities?

What does mentoring look like? What does internships look like? What about getting a career? Um, do I see myself on this campus? What does that look like? For example, my daughter, um, I have a junior. And she’s going into nursing, but she is doing a lot of dual enrollment classes. And what we found for here in Florida, a lot of the nursing programs at the universities, they have to be four years.

And she’s like, I’m not doing all this dual enrollment to go for four [00:30:00] years. I’ve already had my prerequisites. So we not only have to look for, we’re, we’re looking more for a school that she could almost transfer in and go right to sort of that junior, senior level. And so we have to ask very specific questions and there was a school, it was a dream school, uh, and quote unquote dream, like it would’ve been a good fit for her.

But she got down into that program size and availability and all of a sudden we realized it’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna be what she’s looking for. ’cause hers was very specific. Um, but that’s the level of detail in the explore phase that you really need to start getting to and asking those questions.

Uh, like I said, other things to start looking at and explore. Um, is financial match. This is when we start looking at net prices, and I’m gonna show you that here in just a minute. We’re gonna talk about institutional aid. We’re gonna be checking out all those student supports on campus and checking out those student outcomes.

So one of the things that we recommend, uh, one of our favorite [00:31:00] documents to find, so let’s say you have your 12 to 15 schools, is you want to find a really cool document called the Common Data Set. The CDS. Um, the common data set is not found in any one particular place. You actually have to go to Google, um, whatever, um, Harvard Common Data set.

Don’t look at Harvard’s ’cause they’re kind of silly. It’s all considered, everything’s noticed in Harvard, but some schools are very like intuitive and what they’re doing in C seven, it’s a section C seven, it’s a big document. The CDS is like. 30, 40 pages, tons of data, tons of information. And if you’re kind of a data nerd and you like to get in there and find out about, um, all their admissions practices and transfers and size of courses, financial aid, there’s so much data in there, it’s really cool.

Um, but one section as parents is to look at something called C seven and that is how they make their admissions decisions. How important [00:32:00] is rigor class rank your GPA essays, letters of recommendation, and then other non-academic skills like those extracurriculars and clubs. And are you first generation, are you from the state?

Is that important? Um, work experience? So there’s lots of things. If you look at the very, very bottom of this list, um, at the very bottom it says level of applicant interest. Now at this school, they put important. That means that school is seeing. If you are actually interested in the college, how do they judge that?

They judge, judge that by, are you opening their emails? Are you visiting campus? Are you talking with admissions rep when they come to your school? So if I have two students that are pretty similar and Johnny has come to campus and they come to a summer camp and every time admissions comes to their school, Johnny fills out that little sheet and here’s Amanda over here.

And Amanda just kind of, you know, [00:33:00] put it on the common app and applied. Johnny’s gonna be probably a better bet. And if they’re pretty equal, they’ll probably go more likely with Johnny. ’cause if I’m giving him the seat, he’s more likely to come. So this is a really interesting document. Just to kind of see what, what admissions is actually looking for, um, for that particular college.

So, just an interesting thing. So another thing, like I said, financial aid. So during the explore phase, we want you to dive deeper into, um. What is the actual cost of college? Because in list, um, it’s hard to find that data, right? So when you’re in the list phase, you’re just kind of looking at schools that meet certain criteria.

Once you’re in the explorer, you wanna dig a little bit deeper. Like the school I was telling you about, um, earlier where the parent’s like, oh, it’s $50,000. I looked up their col in College navigator. Remember that’s that free site. Um, I looked up their college and I’m like, [00:34:00] that’s pretty average. The scholarship your student got is pretty much what every student gets.

So if you look at this, um, you can see here, let’s go a few lines down. So how many students receive financial aid at this college? A hundred percent of schools receive something. If you look down, you can see it by Pell Grants. So about 23% or about a quarter of the students, um, are typically that kind of, um.

You know, lower, maybe lower income families. Uh, so 75, you know, 77%, um, are not quite full paying, but they’re not getting, uh, financial aid as much. So this school, if you look down at institutional grants and scholarships, so that’s right down here. There we go. We’ll circle it. Um, a hundred percent of students get some type of aid.

Okay. On average, this school, this is a real school up in [00:35:00] Massachusetts. On average, they earn. 40, almost $40,000 in institutional aid. I call that a Kohl’s discount, right? If you ever shop at Kohl’s, um, I get those little coupons. I have a Kohl’s credit card, and you either get the 10% off coupon, which doesn’t really excite me too much.

I’m like, yeah, whatever. Uh, I’ll take it, I’ll leave it. You know, I don’t really need anything for 10%. Then I get the 20% off coupon. Maybe I need to go buy those pair of socks, or maybe I need to go get those. That works 20%. Then every once in a while you get a 30% off coupon, and now you’re like buying stuff that you don’t maybe need.

Right now I’m putting a little extra in the car because I’m like, ah, I got 30% off. Colleges do the same thing. Can we give them 10%? Can we give them 20%? Can we give them 30%? What’s gonna entice them to come to our university? Right? And some colleges don’t have to play that game because. They’re [00:36:00] Harvard, they’re Yale, so they don’t have to give any merit aid or scholarships because families, if they can afford it, they’re gonna pay it.

If they can’t afford it, then we’ll give them, um, grant scholarship money, and we’ll make that gap up. But they’re not giving merit aid where other schools, like this one here, every single student on average gets almost $40,000. Okay? So if all of a sudden you’re seeing, oh, that, that has, you know, an $85,000 price tag, but 40,000 pretty much comes off the top, then that’s good to know, right?

So again, in the college navigator, you can find that, um, under the net price. So here’s another example. If you go a little bit further from cost of attendance to net price, now they do it by income. So this is actually the University of Massachusetts Amherst. I pulled it up earlier today. Um, you can see by income.

So some families say, well, I make too much. What’s the average for myself and my students? [00:37:00] So you can see from, you know. By income up 30,000 up to 48,000. So you can see, you know, where that falls on that income. Um, so really important to know. So if you are looking at more of those selective schools that maybe don’t give merit aid, definitely check this out.

Um, by income because it could be drastically different from almost zero like schools like University of Chicago and um, Williams and some of those that have those for financial need families versus all the way to full pay, right? So paying attention to that is really important. So you, now you have an idea what you should be expecting, um, from that financial aid award letters.

Just checking my time here. Alright, we still got a little time. So one of the cool documents that we have, so we’ve talked a lot about this data and all these data points and the college navigator’s great. We have an even better tool. Completely free, [00:38:00] completely just downloadable. All you have to do is go to our website.

If you go under the downloads button, you’re gonna look for the college data organizer. So all this data, and most of what I’ve shown you in the six keys, most of it is readily available, right? Every year, every university that gets financial aid has to provide the federal government, the Department of Education there.

Data points, right? Um, on all these factors. So, um, when you look at college board and, and college navigator, that’s all the same data that they are pulling from. And we pulled from that exact same source and we put it in a cool, um, Excel or Google sheet. Um, Dr. Pointin loves the Google sheet. I love the Excel.

You do, you doesn’t matter. Um, so you pull it and you can basically any college, um, that receives financial aid. So pretty much any two year, four year, public, private, most of them should be on here. You’ll put in [00:39:00] a name. And what you’ll find is you can color code it and what you see, and it’s by the six keys of college fit showing you data.

So here are five schools, um, uh, mostly the SUNY system. Syracuse is on here. Um, and green is like kind of beneficial to the student. Might be easier to get into, might be a little bit cheaper, um, might have a lower student to faculty ratio, but it’s just kind of beneficial to the student, right? Um, yellow is kind of like the least, you know, best, you know, maybe it’s the hardest to get into.

Maybe it’s the most expensive. And then middle is just in the middle, okay? It’s just white, um, is in the middle of those. And so very quickly when I’m looking at this. Things that I can find is, um, I can see, um, you know, Renzi or Polytechnic, um, is the hardest out of these five schools. It’s the hardest to get [00:40:00] into.

It’s also up there with being one of the most expensive, right? Um, but we can also look here when I come down to student income, or sorry, student outcomes. Um, the retention rate’s only 65%. That’s not very high. Remember, that’s that satisfaction kind of Google rating that we’re getting, right? Where if I look at, uh, you know, the SUNY Cortland, their 91% of students come back their second year.

That says something. So, huh. A lot of kids really like the campus. I might wanna know more. I look at graduation rates. If you look at that, um, they, a lot of times they’ll put like a four year graduation rate. A lot of ’em end up telling you the six year graduation rate. I don’t know about you as a parent, but I don’t have a six year financial plan for my child.

I have a four year financial plan and maybe three years if we’re lucky, right? Um, so I don’t wanna know the six year. I wanna know how many kids are graduating on time and [00:41:00] what does that look like. And then here you can also break down average net price institution laid. There’s ton. I mean, there’s almost like, I think there’s 60 data points that are on there.

Um, and they also, there’s a tab on there for the common data set. So that sheet I showed you, that C seven earlier, that you can go through and you can put all the numbers in and it color codes it. So you can see which schools are really like more essay driven, which ones are more test driven, which ones have that demonstrated interest.

Um, and then there’s some cool graphs and stuff on the last tab. So definitely go ahead, um, download that. We update it every year to the most current, so whatever, uh, is on the website. Is the most current. So if you have a junior going through right now and you have a freshman, don’t hold on to that junior one.

Get the new one in two years. Um, ’cause it’ll have the most up to date. And as you know, with COVID and everything else, it, it’s, it changes so quickly, right? So, great, great sheet that will help you start that. [00:42:00] And like I said, within the book, we have, um, the specific questions. And I would take this information, start thinking about it, and now go ask the college those questions.

Remember, as you go through this process, you are the consumer, okay? At the end of the day, they need you just as much. And at some schools, they need you more than you need them. So attack it as I’m the consumer, I’m doing what’s best for me. Doesn’t matter the name, okay? It doesn’t matter that it has to have certain colors attached to it.

Um, it really is, is it the best school for me based on all these six keys? As you go through this process, hopefully you’re saying, oh yeah, this is way more information than I kind of thought. So as you apply, you know, one of the things that we do is, um, I don’t recommend applying to 15, 20 schools. Maybe that’s what your list started at.

Um, but this is basically kind of like that card sort your rating. [00:43:00] We have you in the book actually rate, um, each of your schools based on all of these factors. So when I look at the student outcomes for, um, UNC, chapel Hill or I look at, um, over Michigan, you know, what does student outcomes look like across the board?

Which ones are really strong? Which ones are weaker? Who has a better academic match? What has a personal match? So you, you assess each one of those based on the six keys of college fit. You add it up at the end and what you should start seeing is schools that are kind of, um. Coming to the top right. And so one of the things that we would love for you to remove out of your vocabulary is this idea of safety target reach.

Um, and the reason why we think that that’s really poorly worded is because there could be a safe quote unquote safety school that is [00:44:00] amazing for you as a student. It, it’s financially available. They have an amazing program. I’ll give my my daughter as an example for nursing. Actually, some of the community colleges are one of the, some of the few programs that are allowing, would allow her to go di directly into those last two years of like a BSM program.

So a four year university, could she get into one of the more selective, you know, Florida state schools? 100%, but it might not be the best match for her. So it might be a safety, but if I minimize that program. Then it’s not gonna match her. So what we try to look at is the chance of admissions. That’s that selectivity.

Is it a, a high chance that I’m gonna get in, like pretty much guaranteed? Is it a moderate chance? Like, hey, there is some variability here. I maybe, maybe not. And then low chances, uh, they’re like a 5% acceptance rate or I’m missing something. Um, so using chance of admissions is a [00:45:00] better thing, but on top of that, we wanna merge.

Is the school a best fit for me? So removing just the admissions piece should be over here, but then is it a good fit for me? And we have this single, we call it the three by three. When you merge those two things together, now you’re really looking at schools. Is it a good fit? And what’s my chance of getting in?

And your best scenario are schools that you have a, a pretty high to moderate chance of admissions, and it’s a pretty high to moderate. Overall fit based on your six keys, and at that intersection is where you’re gonna find schools that are really good for you. Um, so definitely, um, use that. The three by three is phenomenal, um, and really helps you kind of remove some of the desirability out of it.

So once you go through the application process, you apply, you win some, maybe you lose some. So what we have students do is come [00:46:00] back to that list. So now that I’ve applied, I have my applications and I know the information. Did I get in, did I get a spring term, a summer term? What does that emissions look like?

Or did I get denied? And then also, what does my financial aid package look like? Right? So that’s a big. Part of it compared to loans and grants and scholarships. Like what does that look like? And we have you assess based on your new, on your new list. ’cause your list changes, right? Because now you have all that information.

And now based on knowing where I got in now instead of doing chance of admissions, ’cause now I’ve been admitted. Now is when you bring in the desirability. Now, okay, based on my six schools I got into, now let’s go back to my six keys. Let’s reassess, let’s revisit, let’s look at desirability, let’s look at that kind of.

Do I [00:47:00] belong there? What’s my next four years gonna look like? Is this how I envision it? Does this give me the opportunities? And then bring those two things together, reassess, and then really, um, what you’ll find is that the, the school that is gonna be the best fit for you will definitely become very, very clear.

So the reason we tell you not to bring in desirability until after you have your admissions. If you get your heart set on a school and the admissions is so difficult and you’re not gonna get in, then it makes all the other, it minimizes all the other great schools that you have on your list. Right? So try, I, I told you earlier about my, my oldest daughter was a very desirable, uh, school up in Massachusetts.

And, um. You know, it was kind of blinding her. So we had to step back, reassess, look at it, and when we kind of removed that and brought over the overall [00:48:00] fit, uh, we realized this other school is a better opportunity. So, um, things to think about, um, as you go forth. So at the end of it, um, when you are kind of into that second semester, senior year, um, we would love for every family to sit down and really have a plan of success.

You should be talking about finances the whole time. Who’s gonna pay what I was telling about that family that has now a $50,000 bill? And I’m like, well. How much do you have in savings? How much are you willing to pay? What’s the student gonna pay? Like, having those conversations if I get scholarships, do I need more scholarships?

What does that look like? Um, really having a plan for socializing, getting involved on campus, um, doing all the things that makes school a, a great environment for them. And then also making sure that academically they have a plan for their, um, again, their four year plan, not their six year plan, and to kind of go through that process.

So, um, we [00:49:00] have you all sit down answering some questions and putting a plan in place. ’cause unfortunately, 50% of students do not graduate, um, within four years of college. Again, they take either too long or unfortunately some drop out because it’s not a good fit for them. Um, so that is kind of the gist of everything.

So the six keys of college fit, let me just reiterate. It’s really, it gives you a unique lens, um, to talk about the college admissions process and making sure that as you go through each step that you are aware, you’re asking the right questions, you’re on the same page. Um, and it’s really fantastic. I love when students come to me, um.

They’re like, oh, Dr. Stir, I really love this school because this is, um, this has an academic match. And they list why it’s an academic match. When they come and say, oh, and then the career, you know, and they start listing all these things. I’m [00:50:00] like, you’ve done your homework. You are informed, you are having a better experience.

And it puts you in the driver of the experience versus just kind of flailing, not knowing what to ask, when to ask it, and so forth. So, um, I’m gonna put my information up here. Um, and I know Julie’s coming on. I’m sure there are some questions, and we do have about 10 minutes left. Um, so feel free at any time, uh, to email me, uh, check out the website.

There’s lots of stuff going on. Um, our Facebook, Instagram’s a little sad, but we are gonna be putting more information out here pretty quickly. Um, but we would love to hear from you and if you have any questions, uh. Definitely let us know. All right, Julie, where, where are we at for questions?

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you so much.

You know, I’m gonna ask her. We don’t have any at the moment, so if you have any questions, there was so much, uh, shared and I, I love it. Uh, so just put them in the q and a if there’s a question you right now that, that Amanda can address for you. Um, but that, that was [00:51:00] a lot and really, really, really great.

Um, so we’ll just give it, we’ll give it a moment.

Amanda Sterk: We were very thorough. Like I said, that, that college student organizer, that CDO is my most favorite resource ever. And, um, I mean, I, people from all over the world will download it and, and so it’s fun to see. Um, but more importantly, people use it, right? So it’s looking at college data differently for you to make a more informed choice.

So definitely download that. Um, very critical.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Oh, that’s, that’s terrific. Oh, let’s see. Alright, here we go.

Um, and yes, I will send the slides. I will send a link to the recording and the slides tomorrow, so that’s perfect. Um, let me ask this, um, someone asked, does the ratio of full-time to part-time slash adjunct matter [00:52:00] so.

Amanda Sterk: That’s a good question. Um, a lot of times that’s gonna be a hard thing to find. Um, I don’t, they don’t really release that too much.

It really depends. So a lot of times I’ve worked at a community college for many years, and I’m a big believer in community colleges and a lot of their faculty are adjuncts and they’re in the field. They’re doing the criminology, they’re doing the forensics. They’re, you know, have, they’re a business owner, a CEO.

And so sometimes adjuncts are phenomenal because they are, a lot of times they’re practitioners, they’re in the field doing the work. Sometimes full-time faculty, especially at some of the big universities, they’re more focused on the research and the grants and the things they’re getting that they’re not necessarily maybe focused on, like sometimes the pedagogy or giving my, my daughter is in a giant.

Uh, organic chemistry class, and it’s taught by TAs. And like, she went in thinking she was gonna have, um, this kind of one-on-one [00:53:00] time for the office hours. And there were like a hundred kids trying to get questions for this orgo, and they’re this, and she’s like, oh, I thought she’d be like, really kind. And it was like, run like a military.

She’s like, mom, they were so strict. And you question, you question, so it doesn’t always compute. So those are good, good questions that I, I can see a university being like, oh, we have so many full-time faculty, so many part-time, but really it’s more. What does that office hours look like? What does that, like, what is the ratio to students?

Like if I’m taking Orgo, is it a class of a hundred kids or is it 25 students? Right. Um, big difference. So those are the questions that when you’re in that explore phase, you need to dig a little bit deeper, um, because not all the answers are what you think it might be. So.

Julie Shields Rutyna: And a lot, I’m gonna ask this question because it’s along those lines.

Mm-hmm. Um, what are some commonly overlooked questions that you would recommend people ask [00:54:00] when they’re touring colleges?

Amanda Sterk: Oh, that is a great one. Um, for me as a parent and as a counselor, the mental health is a really big deal. Um, ’cause I can, I can’t tell you how many times they’re dealing with transition.

They’re dealing with sleep and not eating well. Like the, it’s hard. That first year especially is extra hard. And I think that, that, if I could say to all families, um, especially when you’re visiting SC schools and when you’re dropping off your student, go to the mental health. You know, counseling Center and Normalize going to ask for help.

’cause a lot of times you do get free services, like so many hours. Um, so I think that’s a question. And same with adaptive services. I think a lot of ki people, oh well I don’t really use my accommodations that much just for testing. Just for, okay, you’re in an Orgo class and now you have four tests and you have, you know, and you’re in a big lecture hall.

So I think those are [00:55:00] some that are really important. Um, and then this. I’m from Florida. We’ve gone through hurricanes, unfortunately, we’ve gone through school shootings. So I also would ask the emergency plans. So if there’s a natural disaster coming through or if there’s a shooting on campus, heaven forbid, um, what’s gonna happen to my student?

What’s your protocol? So, safety, I’m, I have two young, I have two daughters. I’m, luckily, they’re black belts and karate, but I also wanna know the safety of the campus. Do they feel comfortable walking around at night? And if they don’t, is there a car that’s gonna pick them up? What does that look like? Um, so I think those are some things that as a, as a mom, um, and, you know, a college counselor, like, I would say, I think are more important than sometimes, you know, we ask about can my student get in and selectivity, but I wanna know that my, my kids are safe and happy, so.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yeah, that’s great. And how about this one, I [00:56:00] know you must receive this question all the time. This is very common. Um, what do you recommend for a student who has no major preferences yet and is a junior in high school? It’s very hard to assess college fit for an unknown major. I. But

Amanda Sterk: that is,

Julie Shields Rutyna: we know that’s very common,

Amanda Sterk: right?

Very common. And I think that is, it’s really normal. Um, one of the things that I would explore with your student is what you could do right now to start exploring opportunities to see what is a good fit career wise. Um, so maybe looking at, um, maybe an internship or some volunteering opportunities or maybe a class.

Um, but now is the time to really explore that. Um, and if you’re really undecided, ask that at a school, if I’m undecided. Um, what are the programs. I could access, um, you know, what’s your career services look like? A lot of ’em will do assessments. A lot of you. Um, I know some schools they guarantee an internship their freshman year.[00:57:00]

Um, so maybe a big school that kind of can swallow your kid up a little bit and they’re not maybe a big advocate for themselves and they don’t know what to do. Maybe that’s not a good fit for them because even though there’s lots of opportunities, there might be too much opportunities. So, you know, maybe having, where there’s a mentorship or an advisor that’s maybe a closer relationship, um, might be better.

So I would put a little bit more emphasis on that career match, um, and what are the resources to help my student make that decision.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yeah. And then also, right, it is true that that. Sometimes if you go and take a variety of classes, you know that, that helps you think about the next step and For sure. And path.

The path, yeah.

Amanda Sterk: Well, and, and asking that, can I take these certain courses or do I have to be in this major? You know? And sometimes schools will, if. You have to kind of get through your prerequisites, right? Your general education, your English, your math, your [00:58:00] science. Make sure you put in some of those quote unquote career prereq major classes.

Take a intro to business your first semester, take an intro to economics, take a physical therapy anatomy physiology, right? So try to maybe, ’cause usually kids have buckets, right? They kind of gravitate towards like healthcare and what does that look like? Or they kind of look towards like marketing business, like think of meta-majors.

Um, so try to get some classes early on in the process that could be similar to what they might be interested in. Don’t just do all gen ed. Try to take some of those, even maybe over the summer, take a a, a college course or your local community college, right? So, um, those are ways you can start exploring and, and ’cause yeah, I, I think right now they say I think the next generation, what, 12 to 16 different jobs in their life, um.

So we know how many times Julie, did you change majors? I changed majors three times. You know, it’s

Julie Shields Rutyna: Right, right.

Amanda Sterk: [00:59:00] It’s normal. Yeah. I wanted to make money, but I really just wanted to be an educator and so I went to be an educator, so,

Julie Shields Rutyna: yeah. And then, um, this person asked, and I think you talked about it a little bit, where, what’s a good resource to identify merit aid metrics?

Um, and if you qualify, you know, if you don’t think you’ll qualify for need-based aid. And if they ask, does the, uh, college data organizer provide merit aid’s metrics?

Amanda Sterk: It, it, it provides institutional aid data. So what’s the average institutional aid? So using College Navigator will give you an idea and you, again, you’re looking at the, the, the line that says institutional aid and typically that sort of merit aid, the little financial aid separate from, um.

Fafsa, right? So FAFSA is a different line. Um, so their aid, and then some schools are very [01:00:00] transparent on their websites. Like if, like University of Tennessee, if you’re an outstate student and these are your scores and your GPA, this is exactly what we give you. If you’re an in-state, this is exactly what we give you.

And it literally is a metric chart, like where are you at on those academic factors. Um, others you can definitely talk to financial aid. Um, but getting a good idea of where am I at with, um, in terms of am I matching their academics or am I exceeding? So a lot of students are like, if you’re really looking for scholarships, it’s not those kind of.

You know, low chance of admission, kind of reach schools that are gonna be giving out a lot of aid. So a lot of times you being over their academics is where you’re gonna see the scholarships by joining the honors program, by being above there. So if you’re really looking for aid, sometimes it’s the schools that are, um, you’re exceeding their [01:01:00] admissions criteria is where you’re gonna find the most aid.

Um, so definitely keeping a wide list is really important.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Oh, I, I, I’ll add one more thing too, that colleges have sometimes have a net price calculator on their website.

Amanda Sterk: Yep.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Right. And if you go into, you can type that in the search bar. If you go in and if you see the questions center around GPA test scores, right?

Things that are merit based, you can have a sense that, that, that college has merit, you know?

Amanda Sterk: Yeah.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Alright.

Amanda Sterk: Yeah. But, but those are great questions. And, um, there are some websites and places out there that kind of collate all of that information together. Like College Aid Pro is one of ’em that, um, you can look up schools and they get award letters and tell you like, this is a good award letter.

This is not a great one, you know, and so forth. Um, so there are some programs out there that they do kind of, um, put that information together and, and make it a little easier for you. [01:02:00] College a pro is one of ’em that I know.

Julie Shields Rutyna: And then the last question that is listed is, you know, we all hear this, that some colleges are closing these days.

It’s, it’s a, you know, uh. It’s a reality that we have seen. How can, how can a family be sure that, um, or, you know, what can, what can they look into to, to sort of have a good understanding that the college that the student is going to go to isn’t going to close?

Amanda Sterk: That is good. Um, one of the things that I would look at is their enrollment trends over the last few years.

Right? So is it on the decline? So using that common data set, we were looking at, um, usually they have them listed for the last few years. Um, so looking at their enrollment data, is it on the upward trends? Is it on the downward? Is it pretty steady? Um, is really important. And so kind of getting the feel of the college too.

Um. You know, when you’re on campus does, how does it feel? What’s the conversation? Um, but [01:03:00] you’re right, there’s a lot of schools that are consolidating. They’re closing. And you know what’s happened with the Common app, which is great ’cause it’s one application for 1200 schools is some schools are getting way more applications.

Like let’s just, I’ve been using UF as an example. They had a hundred thousand applications this past year. Northeastern had a hundred thousand applications for not that many spots. And then there’s other schools that are dying for enrollment. And so I caution your student to like, just go on the. You know, oh, these are what’s on Instagram right now.

Right. And there’s a lot of great schools out there, but looking at the data, looking at the information and realizing that some schools are really gonna fight for you to be there and will give you good amounts of aid, and that’s fantastic. But you do have to be, um, cautious, you know, and, and really look at the backend side.

Do they look healthy? Is all the data kind of pointing to [01:04:00] that they’re gonna be around for a long time? Yeah. That’s the small, the small schools, they’re struggling. And I’ll go back to the financial aid piece. So the school that my daughter ended up, I won’t say the name. Um. You know, we had, we’re budgeting, we’re looking at everything.

And what they did not tell the families there was a $7,000 increase from the year prior to the next year. So all of a sudden when you’re looking at 20 24, 20 25 to 25, 26, $7,000 is a lot of money that was not listed anywhere. And now what happens the next year and what happens the next year? So really again, looking at what are those trends of, and it’s funny, we’ve been doing the college data organizer for several years and I did an old one, but in the same school and you kind of don’t see the big jump of tuition and room and board and you’re like, I the same document by three years ago.

Was [01:05:00] $10,000 less, right? So you do wanna pay attention to, you know, when you’re doing that final award letter, and if you’re kind of scraping by and just think prices are going up, and what does that entail for, for your family? So just being an informed consumer, I mean, that’s what this whole conversation’s about, right?

Is that you’re asking those questions, you’re diving into it, and you’re not just going by, oh, this was a pretty brochure, you know, you’re asking real questions. So thank you for all those questions. That’s great. Hopefully that was helpful, Julie.

Julie Shields Rutyna: No, it was, and those were great questions. Yes. So, oh, thank you so much, so

Amanda Sterk: much.

Julie Shields Rutyna: This was, this was really great and thank you to all of you and your great questions. And um, yeah, I will send everything out tomorrow so you’ll have all of these great resources and I hope everyone has a great night.

Amanda Sterk: Great night. Take care everybody.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you.