Please note that this transcript was auto-generated. We apologize for any minor errors in spelling or grammar.

Shawn Morrissey: [00:00:00] Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us this afternoon for asking Expert all your CSS profile questions. Um, just a few details about participating today. Um, the chat feature has been disabled. And how we’re going to work this. If you have a question, you can put that in the q and a and then we’ll be looking at the questions and asking a lot of those live.

We’ll also be sending out a recording of the webinar and, um, the slides after the, after a few days, um, to you see also, if you want to use the live transcript feature, that will give you closed captioning as well. So we’re happy to have Mike Goodwin with us today. He’s the Assistant Director of Student Financial Services at Williams College.[00:01:00]

He is our CSS profile expert for today. And I’m Sean Morrissey, director of College Relations at Mifa. I’ll be trying to moderate and ask questions to him. And we also have, um, Jennifer Bento Pinion behind the scenes, and she’s going to help answer some questions as well.

So just a little bit about Mifa. So Mifa is a state authority, um, created by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 1982. It was actually created at the behest of colleges in Massachusetts. They petitioned the state legislature to create an entity in Massachusetts to provide. Low cost, um, loans to students in Massachusetts.

Since then, we’ve expanded that. Our loan program is available nationwide and we also help families pay, plan, save, and pay for college. So, beyond the college loans, we do have, [00:02:00] um, 5 29 savings plans as well as the prepaid, um, college plan. And we offer a lot of advice for families such as this webinar that we’re doing today.

Um, if you’d like to connect with Mifa and receive our emails, um, having signed up for this webinar, you should be in our email curriculum already and that’s going to give you information about upcoming webinars, um, financial aid tips. We send out scholarship lists, um, important. Deadlines and articles and a lot of information about paying for college.

Um, we also have a lot of social media and here are the different links to that. And again, we will be sending, um, these slides to you so you’ll have all this information available. So let’s get started with, um, the CSS profile. Um, Mike, can you tell us a little bit about what the CSS profile is and, um, how it differs from the [00:03:00] fafsa?

Mike Goodwin: Sure, sure. Thank you for having me today, Sean. I appreciate it. Um, this is probably the fourth, the fifth year I think I’ve done this with Mifa. Um, it’s a lot of fun. I enjoy it. Uh, just a little bit about myself. If I work at Williams College, uh, those who aren’t familiar with Williams, we’re in Williamstown, mass, which is the corner of Vermont and New York.

So as far west as you can get. I met last night with a mifa event of a family from Braintree and they had no idea where I was. And, uh, it was kind of funny kinda explaining to them the location. Um, Williams College is one of 200, 250 colleges that uses the CSS profile, which is the other application, um, that you would use to apply for financial aid along with the fafsa, which is a federal, um, form out of the Department of Education.

The FAFSA uses what’s called federal methodology. They put together their algorithms and their design to determine how much aid a family would be, um, should be receiving. [00:04:00] CSS profile uses institutional methodology. So the colleges that use the CSS profile are, their aid is gonna be coming from their, their endowments, their money, uh, that they’re giving out.

So they wanna look at your income with a closer dive than the FAFSA would, would ask for. Um, it doesn’t mean that they’re looking for stuff that’s gonna give you less aid. Uh, and actually it’s conversed to that They’re looking through their lens using the CSS profile, what, how best they can help families and so on.

Uh, CSS profiles through college board. Your students probably would’ve taken an SAT exam or one of these. Um, uh. Uh, exams through college board, they would have a college board ID number. And so when you start the college, the CSS profile application, they’re going to use their ID number to kind of get the ball rolling and connect, connect their names such to the, the application.

Um, the CSS profile opens [00:05:00] up October 1st every year. Uh, oftentimes people ask what the deadline is, the CSS profile. Every institution is gonna have its own deadline. So you want to pay attention to those deadlines, A, to make sure you get things on time. But more importantly, B some schools have the limited pool of aid that they can give out.

So getting your application before the deadline, uh, is gonna be helpful ’cause they’re gonna, you’ll be, or higher up in that queue that they’re looking at, um, uh, instead of being on the bottom or late with their application. The CSS profile is available to all domestic students and international students.

Um, and again, every college has their way of using their profile, but ideally, it’s a similar algorithms and, and design that colleges can use fairly, um, when giving out aid to different colleges and such. Some cases a scholarship. If for students applying for a scholarship, they might ask for the CSS profile depending on the amount that they’re giving out.

[00:06:00] Um, ’cause they’re gonna want a sense of what your, your income and assets look like. And that’s the design of the CSS profile. It’s right there in the name. The schools are looking for your economic profile, looking at your income. And your assets, um, to put together a profile of what a family can’t afford.

As you go through the CSS profile, they’re gonna ask what, what we refer to as prior, prior year. So if your student is applying for admission in the fall of 2026, we’re looking at your 2024 income. So you can use that just to give it on the fafsa, uh, to fill in that information. Your assets would be today’s assets, um, when you’re filling out the form, the day you’re filling out the form.

We call that a window of time, and I’m sure we’ll touch upon that a little more later. Um, as we go through this presentation, please share the questions, Jennifer, we’ll, we’ll bring ’em out ’cause it’s a good way to kind of tailor this presentation as we go forward, um, [00:07:00] to, and, and touch upon people’s concerns and questions and, and kind of get more into the, the meat of the profile.

What I like about the profile, using the profile is that we’re looking at your 2024 information that’ll ask you about your 2025 income. And there might be some questions about 2026. So again, we’re given that full profile three years. Look at your, at your, your family’s economy, um, and what you can afford.

So that’s helpful and makes it very different than the fafsa. Um, the, um. If I could ramble on, but I think I’ll stop. I don’t know if Jennifer is any, anything that people are leaning towards or wondering about.

Jennifer Bento: We do have a couple of questions around five 20 nines. Okay. So, yeah, so, um, 5 29 accounts. Um, if there are accounts that, um, are held by the grandparents, how is that, um, put into the [00:08:00] CSS profile?

Is it the total amount? Is it divided by four? Uh, and, uh, yeah, that, that we can start there, I think. Yes. Okay. Yep.

Mike Goodwin: Yep. And so what I’ll do is I’ll start a little bit before that, and then we’ll, then we will, we will address the, the, the investments piece when you’re filling out the CSS profile. I, I just did it yesterday.

It’s insanely easy. It takes you step by step by step. I’ll ask you one question per screen. You answer it, you hit continue. I’ll ask you the next question. There might be a screen that has two questions or three questions, but they’re very, very simple. Walking through it, as you’re filling out the profile, you’re gonna sit with your 2024 tax return, all the schedules of your tax return and your W twos and you, it’ll take you step by step and I’ll tell you what line number on your tax return, where the answer is.

And there’s always a little question mark, a little box that, that you can press. To get more insight of what they’re actually looking for. Um, it, it’s kind of [00:09:00] tedious because it is page after page, after page after of one question, but so simply used and, and I do appreciate the, the, that, that, that, um, design.

You’re gonna go through your, um, income information from 2024. You’ll share all that. Then it’s gonna ask you about your assets, cash, and savings of the bank investments. Um, home value, what you owe in your home and so on. The form asks you to fill out the answers with what you have in your bank accounts that day, what you owe in your mortgage that day, what your investments are in that day.

When I work with families, I discuss the concept of window of time, meaning that night when you’re filling it out, they’re looking for those answers. How much is in your checking account that day? What I tell families is look at it as you’re filling this out the night before you get paid. So when you, so your checking account may have $10,000, [00:10:00] but you have to pay your mortgage, your car payment, your car insurance, electricity bill, you gotta get food in the refrigerator.

All those things that come into normal life play. So the idea for me is think about those numbers the day you get paid. Make sure after the bills are paid, everything’s done. What is in those accounts? ’cause that’s a fair, fair asset assessment of what? Of what you have, uh, available for income and money, sending investments, you know, and, and we know the market up and down and so on.

We we’re all living this, including institutions you’re applying to, ’cause they’re playing the market as well. Uh, that’s gonna be more of what you have that day that you’re gonna report, you know, investments that you’re reporting are what, what we call non-qualified investments. So not retirement. CS profile, CSS profile will ask you how much do you have in your retirement savings?

And you’ll share that number, but we’re not gonna use that as an asset. That’s your money for [00:11:00] retirement. We’re not going to touch. Non-qualified investments are stock market, Disney stock, um, other o other outside investments that are not retirement. 5, 2, 9 Plans are considered investments. So you’re gonna report what you have in your 5 2 9, not just for your student, but your student sibling as well.

So the full amount of 5, 2, 9 investments that you have, because the law states that you could, a student, a parents of a student can use the siblings money to help pay for that other student. Uh, can take from that. That fun. So now the question that Jennifer posed is, well, what if it’s a grandparent 5, 2, 9 plan, which is a great question.

One that has a funny answer. I think different schools may look at it differently. Some schools might say it’s a resource for the student to pay for college. You need to count it. Other schools, like my own will say that’s the grandparents’ [00:12:00] investment. We’re not asking about grandparents’ income and, and assets.

Where I’m looking at the families, the parents’, income and assets. So the, the rule of thumb is if the 5, 2, 9 plan is in the student’s name. But the grandparents are putting money into it, then you gotta count that as a student asset, that 5 2 9, because it’s in their name. If the 5, 2 9 plan is in the parent’s name to benefit the student, then you don’t really have to report it ’cause it’s the grandparent’s investment.

And that’s a good thing for parents. You gotta, you gotta report it as, as your, um, as part of your investment. Uh, we often share, plan on using that quickly. If you can use that 5 2, 9 up, a good chunk of it, at least that first year to help you with paying for college. That’s less invest, less assets you’re reporting the following year.

’cause the CSS profile for most colleges, you’re gonna reapply each year and so [00:13:00] now you can reduce that asset by 20, 30, 45, whatever that cost may be that you’re using that amount you’re using, reducing that asset for the following year.

Shawn Morrissey: That’s great. Mike. We have a question about, um, if someone is a business owner, their sole proprietor, um, what do they do with the reporting of assets for the business?

Mike Goodwin: Yep. So the CS profile will ask if your parents, uh, or parents own a business. And, um, that information usually is reported on the Schedule E of your tax return. And so the, the business name will be listed and how much you’ve earned from that business. Schools are gonna ask you. So let me back up for a second.

Again, I, I should have touched about this earlier. When you complete the CSS profile application, you’re gonna submit it, and then within a day or so, you’ll get an email from college Board asking you to upload your tax documents to what’s called [00:14:00] ioc, institutional Document Service. So you are going to upload to, to idoc, which is part of the college board, your 2024 tax return, W twos, all your schedules and your business tax returns, 1120 s, 10 65, 11 20.

Um, those you have businesses that might be familiar with with these forms. I will say that majority families that I work with run these very successful businesses. They don’t look at their tax returns, so they don’t know what these forms might look like. So if you have a business and you have, uh, you’re reporting these businesses, uh, in your tax return work with your accountant to make sure you have the right forms that you’re uploading into the IOC system on the CSS profile, it’ll ask you what is the value of the business?

And so that’s something to work with you again, your accountant. Um, what is your business valued at? Then I’ll ask you what you might owe [00:15:00] on the business. And what’s in between is the business equity. And so schools will look at that as an asset. Um, your, your business tax forms, the 1128 to 10 60 fives will show those numbers.

Um, and so schools may go in and look at that and double check that to make sure it’s accurate what you’re reporting. Um, along with that, these business tax forms, you’re gonna have what’s called a K one. K one. So if you’re, if you’re a business tax form, the 1120 s, 10 65 is your business’s tax return.

It’s gonna be separate new, your tax return, you just, you report it through the Schedule E, you’re gonna have what’s called a K one, which is bus, basically your business’s W2. It tells you how much you’ve earned from the business profits, and that gets reported on, again, the Schedule E. And I don’t wanna get too much into taxes and how they all work.

This is all information you’re gonna share with us on the profile and upload [00:16:00] through the IOC system. The reason you’re uploading their, your tax returns and all this information through the idoc. It allows us to verify the information you’ve shared on your application. ’cause we want to make sure the numbers are are right.

Um, there are gonna be some items on your businesses. That you can write off for tax liability reasons, things like depreciation, using a home as an office, that colleges may add back because you can write it off for tax liability, which is great, but we can’t write it off for financial aid ’cause it’s still, it’s still income you’ve earned, you’re just writing it off for tax purposes.

So again, I, if you have a tax business and I just, this morning I’m emailing with a family back and forth asking you about tax questions. Your financial aid offices are always gonna defer you back to your accountant to, to get a better understanding of your taxes, ask us certain forms that we’re looking for, and then if you need to make [00:17:00] changes, um, in future years, how you report things.

That’s something you want to do with your, your, either your, your accountant or your business finance advisors, um, and such.

Oh, go ahead Sean.

Shawn Morrissey: Another question about assets. So if, um, the parent and student have joint accounts, should those assets be reported as a parent asset or it’s a student asset?

Mike Goodwin: So, that’s a great question. So I, I think it’s up to you if the, if the account is in both students’ names, then you just decide how you wanna report ’em.

But here’s what I’ll share. When for most schools using institutional methodology, we’re looking at roughly 25% of students’ asset. So if a student reports they have $4,000 in their cash and savings account, a thousand dollars would be used towards their student contribution. Because when, when you, when we get your [00:18:00] award from the college, there’s a parent contribution and a student contribution.

So a student contribution is usually 50% of any income they have like business income, like, excuse me, they work a job, income from a job, and then 25% of their assets. Parents, we’re only looking at three to 5% of your assets. So if you’re sharing an account, report it onto the parents. If the student has an account and is a significant amount of money, have a conversation with the student about moving the money over to the parent’s account.

Um, and so when you report it, you’re kind of, you’re reducing that student contribution piece. Um, a lot of colleges may not share that with you. My wife and I put two kids through college. You, I think parents need to know. These are ways to kind of help yourself in that sense. Um, the, um, the student contribution, a lot of colleges would just have.[00:19:00]

Like a, a, a $1,500, an $1,800 student contribution, even without any income or assets. Um, but if they have a job and they have income, if they have assets, I’ll just add to that contribu student contribution piece. So just, just good to kind of give some thought to when you report it, where you wanna report it.

Shawn Morrissey: Could you speak a little bit about, um, legal guardianship, custody where grandparents raising the grandchild, um, yeah. On the fafsa, they’re considered independent, but how do they treat it on the CSS profile?

Mike Goodwin: No, that’s a great question. Again, I just had a phone call today about this. So in the C’S profile, a student can put themselves as independent, report themselves as independent, and they would share.

Now we have a lot of students here at Williams who just put themselves as independent thinking, oh, what a great idea. I’ll just do that and I’ll save me money. No, ’cause you, you have to prove that, that you [00:20:00] are truly independent. So. Parent is deceased, another parent is not part of your life. You have legal, your, uh, you have a legal guardian, uh, or your ward of the court.

So the CSS profile will ask those questions, the, um, and then the institution will take that information and make a determination that we will treat the student as independent. And there may be just a student contribution part of that. They may or there may not be. It’s all part of the colleges, but the college board allows you to do that when you’re, if you are, and this is gonna lead me to another question, I’m sure it’s out there.

If your parents are divorced or say you have a parent who’s deceased, but the other parent isn’t part of your life, there’s a form when once you submit the CSS profile, there are a list of forms available for you to give more information. Um, and there’s one called the Non-Custodial Waiver Forum, and this is an important forum.

Your colleges might even have it on their [00:21:00] website and allows a student to go in and share that one of their parents, or maybe both their parents, depending on the situation, but one of their parents is not a part of their life. They will, the, the form will ask for any information you have on the parent email, home address, phone number, they have it, share it.

If they don’t, you just put not applicable. Um, and I’ll ask about the last second page asks, what kind of relationship is there? When’s the last time you might’ve seen that parent? Um, and such. Then the third page asks the student to give a short narrative about why they’re choosing to waive their parent.

It could be a case of abuse, it could be mental health issues, it could be a number of issues. Um, and so that this form is so useful for colleges to get an understanding of the context of the student’s life or the parent’s life, the family’s life, if they’re living with one another, parent, [00:22:00] the form. So you’ll submit that non-custodial waiver form, but they’ll also ask for three um references, three outside references.

Who can support the, your, your request to waive this parent. And that usually that third party form, we ask you to be someone close to the family, but not necessarily a relative, um, clergy or a colleague, counselor, a clinician, someone who has some insight into the life. Um, and that’ll help colleges make a decision about waiving, um, waiving that parent.

And again, if this student is independent, it could be for a lot of reasons, they’re trying to waive both parents. We would use this process to get that information.

I feel like I’m a little off the line there with that, with that answer, but I hope it, it, um, got there. [00:23:00]

Jennifer Bento: We had an interesting, um, question come in and it, I’m sure it’s on a lot of folks’ minds. Um, but how, how is security and confidentiality managed mm-hmm. Information that’s in, in put in the form?

Mike Goodwin: Sure.

Yeah. So the CSS profile has been around for a number of years. They, they put a lot of securities in and such in place when you, when you share your information. Um, so it, it, it’s secure. They share the information with the colleges that the student lists out on the application. So when you’re filling out the CSS profile, you will list the schools you want it shared with and they will share that with the school.

Sometimes students like make a, they change their mind and they want to put an additional school. You can do that. It’s unlimited. Um. The, uh, but the security measures in, in place are, are, are great. I was just at a conference this past week, uh, excuse me, two, three weeks ago now in Texas, um, with the [00:24:00] folks in college board and the CSS profile and, and the security’s there.

The IOC system where you upload your taxes is secure. It will go through the security measures of, through the college board when you upload it to the I doc, the institutional document service. And then they will send it to the colleges that the student lists. So we’ll get that information. If you’re concerned about privacy, there’s no concern, there’s no, I mean, you are welcome to take a black sharpie and cross out social security numbers on your tax return.

We see that often. You, you certainly can do that. Um, that social security number, at least the student social security number will be part of the CSS profile application. Uh, but if you’re concerned about information on your tax return, you can, you can blank it off. Um, but I think the, the security measures are there and, and, um, they do a very good job of, um, you know, in this age of internet hacks and whatever.

I’ve not seen an issue with CSS for, and [00:25:00] I’ve been doing this for nine years, so. I think I wanna step back and talk about when we talk about additional schools. ’cause I think I, I kind of, um, jumped over this. When a student is applying, using the CS s profile, it’s a $25 application fee, the initial application.

And that includes one school, then $16 for every additional school after that. So, um, that’s something to keep in mind. If your family makes less than a hundred thousand dollars a year in income, then that fee is waived and there’s no cost. If your student has done the SATs and the SATs were waived, this, the CSS profile will be waived as well.

Shawn Morrissey: Mike, we have a question that, um, some colleges aren’t appearing on. That they can select that college, even though they believe that that school does [00:26:00] require the CSS profile, how can they determine if the CSS profile is required at the school? Yeah,

Mike Goodwin: I mean, the simplest answer that would be just go to the school’s website and see what their, what they request, what they need from you in terms of financial aid.

It should be listed there that they need the CSS profile and the fafsa. Um. The, um, the, the schools would be the place to look. I think sometimes we think a school, because they’re private, they’re a private institution, that they’re automatically using the CSS profile. But again, only 200, 250 colleges use the profile.

A lot of schools, um, still rely only on the fafsa, so just go to the website and it should be listed there. And I believe if you go to CSS profile. There might even be a list of eligible schools who use the profile there as well.

Shawn Morrissey: Also, there’s a question that, um, do schools only use the CSS [00:27:00] profile for need-based aid? Or if a student is applying for merit-based aid, will they require the CSS profile?

Mike Goodwin: Uh, they, they still, depending on the school, if they don’t want the profile, they’ll still use it. Even with merit based aid, um, usually what happens is you fill the profile that’s looking at, again, your, your income.

Then you will share additional information through the college, through the application process. That’s gonna ask questions about GPAs and class rankings and, and such that might put you in place for merit aid. Um, the, the profile really is just like the FAFSA, is just looking at your family’s economic situation.

Um, and it would, whether or not you’d be eligible for aid. Merit aid is usually based on other items. Um, and a lot of those questions might be asked during the admissions process and admission. You do the, the common app, but schools may add questions regarding information that may put you, make you eligible for, um, uh, [00:28:00] merit aid and such.

Jennifer Bento: We have one here around deadlines, and I feel like we hear this often. Um, if there is, if a, if a student is applying early action and they have, for example, an 11 one deadline, do they have to submit their financial aid forms by that deadline?

Mike Goodwin: That’s, again, colleges have websites and every college will have its own, uh, policies regarding this.

So I would go to the website and if there’s a deadline, there might be a deadline for admissions. Either call the school or dig deeper in the website on their financial aid page to see if there’s a deadline for early action, early decision, excuse me, either one. What their deadlines might, might be. Um, again, if you miss a deadline, you could be missing out on grant aid.

From, from the institution. So you wanna make sure you’re paying attention to those deadlines. If you’re in a situation that the CSS profile requires your [00:29:00] 2024 tax return, but you’ve not filed your 2024 yet because maybe you own a business or you’ve need to amend, contact the college that you’re looking at and ask what their, what they would need from you, what their policies are around that.

’cause they might give you a grace period. To get that tax, those taxes completed. Um, but every school is gonna have its own deadline. There’s no CSS profile deadline. At some point it’ll cut off the, the current year, but I think I probably, the end of the calendar year, I think we saw Williams. I still have students who haven’t applied yet for this current year.

So the profile is still available to them, but at some point, that’s just gonna get cut off. Um, but every school is gonna have their own deadline, so follow up with them.

And that’s same from the FAFSA as well.

Shawn Morrissey: There are a couple questions about how, um, [00:30:00] families can estimate the amount of aid they may receive before filling out the forms, and also how accurate, um, the net price calculators are for schools.

Mike Goodwin: These are my people, so run my jobs here at Williams. I meet with families who are looking to apply early decision and help them estimate what their cost might look like.

’cause if you’re doing, especially early decision, you apply one school, you get in, you’re, you gotta go to that school. If the only way you can get out of that, that agreement is if the cost is prohibitive and you, and you can’t afford it. Every college, this is a federal policy, every college has a net price calculator on their website, under their financial aid website.

Ideally, it’s supposed to be within three clicks from the main website to get to it to find it. Um, but that’s the tool you want to use. And again, much like you see’s profile, you’re gonna wanna sit with your. 2024 tax return or [00:31:00] whatever year it might be that they’re, they’re you’re applying for. But sit with your tax return and answer the questions on the net price calculator.

Um, I’ve met with I this summer. I have al, I’ve almost had 80 people who use our net price calculator and wanted to meet with me. Um, in past years. The numbers are about the same. I find that our, our estimates are. 2000, maybe $2,500 maybe off from the actual award and usually in the parents’ favor. Um, so the tool is a great tool.

Like anything that has to do with inputting information, there’s this wonderful, you know, phrase, garbage in, garbage out. So you wanna make sure you’re using the best numbers you can when you’re using the net price calculator. Um. If you have questions, again, go to that college’s financial aid office, make an appointment and share them that I’ve used them, that you’re a net [00:32:00] price calculator.

This is the number I’m getting, and you verify this estimate with me. Um, and they should be willing to help. The net price calculator’s a great tool, but like anything else, it’s limited. So if your family is a, is a split family fam, parents are divorced. For the CSS profile, and we haven’t really talked about this and maybe I’ll, I’ll touch upon it, but we can touch more about later.

Both, both households where the student lives and then the non-custodial parent. Both of them would need to do separate net price calculators to see what their responsibility, what their contribution would look like. Um, if you’re a family owns a business. Again, today I’m working with a business family with five rental properties, four businesses.

The rental party properties tie into one of the businesses, and when you do that, there are many, many other tax return pages that come with it. The calculator is just not really designed for that. It really is [00:33:00] designed for families with a W2 earnings, maybe a little self-employment number, um, or a simple business.

Um, but it’s a good tool. It’s a good tool. I love, I use it all the time. I look at other schools, um, as well and, and, and, um, um, schools do a good job of keeping them up. Um, and it’s a great way, again, for families to get a sense of what this is gonna cost me rather than walking in blind. Do we wanna talk to, have we talked about split households yet?

I don’t think we did. Right. And how that works? No. No. That would be helpful. Thanks. I touched upon the non-custodial, uh, waiver form. Um, but before we even get to that, if you’re a family that’s divorced, so the student has two parents lives with one in the household, and then the, what we call the non-custodial parent lives in a separate household.

Both parents need to fill out the CSS profile separately, so the student will start the CSS profile. He’ll put, they’ll put their information in. [00:34:00] It’ll ask about parents and they’ll choose that the parents ares divorced or separated. They’ll, the profile will ask for both parents’ names and information and addresses.

If, for this example, if the student lives with their mother, then it’ll ask the, the, the formal continue. When it’s done with the student’s information and start asking about the mother’s information and start putting that in, at some point the student’s gonna indicate that the, the, in this case, say the father is a non-custodial parent.

Um, and we’ll include the father’s email. College board should reach out. They’ll email that parent. Say, we need you to do the, or your student needs you to complete the CSS profile, and then they’ll start their account. My understanding is, and I was trying to find this before we met today, I was telling Sean I, I, I, I believe this is how it works.

The student’s college board ID number, which they’re gonna have from their SATs, um, that’s put that on there. [00:35:00] CSS profile application and that that ID number ties the two households together, that student ID number will tie the two households together. When a family, when each parent fills out their income information, asset information, the colleges will keep both separate.

CSS profile, college Board keeps everything separate. We don’t share information between households, and I’ve had parents tell me it’s okay to do that. We will not do that unless I have both parents on the screen who tell me that, that, that they’re fine with that. Um, the, um, student will get an award from the college and usually what I’ll say is custodial parent contribution is so much non-custodial contribution is so much combined.

Resources for parents would be the, the two added together. So that’s really the only thing you see of the other parent, you know. Is what they’re responsible for. Um, [00:36:00] the, but I think it’s pretty much the same, how, how parents fill it out. Um, if a parent is remarried, so on the fafsa, you fill out the FAFSA form, they’re just looking at the household.

The student lives in. The non-custodial parent does not take part in the process. The CSS profile is the opposite. Both the birth parents are responsible for paying for college. We say you can divorce a spouse, but you can’t, can’t divorce your child. So the idea is that we look at the custodial parents’ income and assets, the non-custodial parents’ income and assets.

If either are remarried, you’re still gonna share that new spouse’s information. W twos, my guess is they’re gonna be combined on the, on the tax return, um, and share that the combined assets. Then the college, the financial aid office at the college you’re applying to will then carve out the non-custodial, excuse me, the, [00:37:00] the new parent.

Um, the stepparent will carve their income out and split the assets for both sides. So that, so the, so the new stepparent isn’t responsible for, for paying for college, it’s just the birth parents, the mother, the, the, the two. Two parents. Um, in some situations, we kind of alluded this earlier, that parents are divorced, separated, were never married, and the other parent just disappeared then, or has no part in their life or maybe dangerous to be part to ask this information from that parent.

That’s where the non-custodial parent waiver form comes in and you’ll fill that out. But the FAU of the CS profile is that. Unwillingness to pay does not waive a parent. And you’ll see that in colleges Will can give you more detail about that. But just ’cause your parent’s a divorce and your other parent doesn’t wanna pay for college, we still need that information.

We’re still gonna look at that,[00:38:00]

Shawn Morrissey: Mike. Well, on the school, take into consideration a family with multiple children in college at the same time.

Mike Goodwin: So most colleges will take that into consideration and C’S profile. We’ll ask the student information, ask the parent information. Then I’ll ask, it’ll say, okay, you’re so, say both parents are married and the student lives in the house with the parents, obviously it’ll say, we have three people in your household.

Is there anybody else? And so then you’ll add a sibling, maybe 2, 3, 4 siblings, and then you’ll, you’ll put their names in their ages where they’re at in high school or, or even college if they’re in college. Then CSS profile will look at this. Family has two undergraduate students in college. Most colleges will take that into consideration when they put together your award.

Um, and each college, for the most part, we, we, we, we kind of do the same thing. I would check with the colleges you’re applying to, to ask them how they would treat that. [00:39:00] Um, but colleges will only recognize undergraduates, siblings, and undergraduate programs. If your sibling is the student’s sibling is in graduate school, most schools aren’t gonna count that as having a student in college.

’cause going to graduate school is a choice. Paying for a student’s graduate school is also a choice. Um, having, if you’re applying for a, for your student to be an undergrad experience, we’re gonna give you credit. If you have another student undergraduate experience. Um, but each school is gonna have their own way of looking at it.

For the most part. Schools are gonna recognize that and give you that, that aid. Be prepared. Going back to the enterprise calculator and look at these numbers. Be prepared to know what that cost might look like when that sibling graduates, if they’re older and when that student grad, that sibling graduates, and now your student has one or two years of them, them being the only one in school.

Make sure you know that, ’cause that helps with that future planning and what that’s gonna look like.[00:40:00]

Shawn Morrissey: We have a question about how someone should calculate the answer to the question, provide the best estimate of what the student’s parents completing this application plan to pay for the student’s educational expenses.

Mike Goodwin: So I’ll share inside, inside scope. Very few of us ever look at that answer, um, because we know a.

It’s just not fair, you know? And b, we know students, a lot of families are gonna put zero or you know, a thousand dollars. Um, so I think, you know, answer that how you see fit. Um, some schools might look at that, especially if they’re on a fence about something and, and don’t know. But for the most part, and again, I was just at this conference and we kind of joked about this, a lot of schools are, are just not gonna take that consideration.

’cause we know you may not. Have a, an adequate understanding of what schools are looking at when we put this all together. And why would you, um, [00:41:00] the, if you’ve done the net price calculator and you’ve come up with a number, you might put that number in there and that’s fine. But I’ve never known a school to, to punish a family if they put too high of a number in there.

Um. ’cause again, all the, the belief might be that schools, and you hear this all the time from people trying to sell services, the schools are trying to take advantage of you. And it’s just the opposite. We’re all here, we all get paid to do our jobs, to give the best aid we can to a family. But I know, we know the number we come up with may not be the number you were hoping for.

That’s where conversations come in, appeals come in, um, and get to know your, your office and then your French aid office and kind of getting an understanding of how they’ve come to that number and then sharing with them. Yes. But let me give you context regarding an issue. What’s unique about the, the CSS profile, which I really like about it, and I think I might have touched upon it, is that there’s a [00:42:00] section called special circumstances.

That allows you to give some context to us of what, what do you want us to know that’s not reflective on your tax return or in your assets. It could be that you’re supporting a student’s grandparent and their housing, um, or their meals. It could be that, that, that grandparent lives in your house, but you don’t claim it on your tax return.

It could be you have outstanding medical bills for, for some illness. Or an accident that you’re still paying back taxes, that you’re still paying, giving us a sense of other things that we just aren’t gonna see just from your tax return and what you reported on assets. So special circumstances is a great tool.

My my advice is 5, 6, 7 sentences. If you’re getting into paragraphs of information, then you can always just put special circum circumstances. Put a note, see letter. And then upload the letter with your taxes. That, that, if you feel like you need to give [00:43:00] more, more context to what your situation might be.

Shawn Morrissey: Mike, is there anywhere to put, um, credit card debt or other debt and expenses on the CSS profile?

Mike Goodwin: There isn’t, colleges don’t look at debt. Um, as, as part of our analysis, uh, we look at your home and what your, you know, what you, what’s valued at and what, what you own on it. Uh, we’ll get you business, what is valued at what you own on it.

Um, but we don’t look at debt. Uh, we don’t take debts. And, and just basically the best answer I can give is that some people can just run up credit cards and make poor decisions and then try to use that as a benefit for aid, and we, we just can’t do that. Um, having said that, again, the special circumstances is a place to share with us that you are and, and you have great debt because of.

Tax liens, back taxes. [00:44:00] Um, your home was hit by a, a, a horrible storm. And, and there’s things that we just can’t do, and we’re underwater, excuse the pun, but underwater trying to, to, to, uh, make things right. Schools will take those kinds of things into consideration, but credit card debts, card debt, those kinds of things we’re not necessarily gonna take into consideration.

Jennifer Bento: We had a couple questions around real estate and home value and how, how do we estimate home value and, and you know, like a main home versus in a or a rental property. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Mike Goodwin: Yeah, so on the form you report your home value, what it, what you own it, and what your, what you, what, what is valued at what you own it.

Some families might have it assessed. They might go to the town, see it’s assessed at, and you might go to Zillow if we ever had a question, our office anyway. [00:45:00] Usually we’re not gonna question it. If we had a question, if someone said they owned a, a home in Manhattan that was valued $150,000. We’re probably gonna look up that on Zillow to see what that home might really be worth.

’cause the family might have dropped to zero or two when they reported it. Um, but I think for families, you know, just I, if you don’t know, go to Zillow. And, and that, you know, and, and you can argue, we can have a conversation about Zillow being higher or lower or whatever. Um, but it’s just an easy place to, excuse me, to get an answer if you have an other.

And so, and colleges with the CSS profile might treat your home value if your, if your equity in your home is greater than your income, then they’ll use a special treatment so you’re not punished. I haven’t paid your mortgage for 10, 15, 20 years. Um, and ask the school how they might treat that other real estate summer home rental property.

You’re gonna report that again, the value, what you [00:46:00] own on it. Um, and that equity is gonna be seen as an asset. So, um, that’s how that’s treated. Um, the, um, if these. Rental properties are all part of an LLC or a business, and that’s your main source of income. Make sure that your schools know that and they may treat those properties as business properties as opposed to personal properties.

Um, if you have a summer home somewhere, make sure to include that. Um, when you do your use an net price calculator. Include it. I tell a story of a family who did the price net price calculator, came out with a number they liked, applied for aid, and they weren’t eligible. And they yelled at me, but they had a house on Cape Cod they never told me about.

So I think, you know, when you look at your assets, make sure you’re double checking and you have the, the correct information. Um, um, housing and, and, and Jen, you just got me thinking [00:47:00] about something that goes with this. When you fill the CSS profile, you’re gonna share your home address and your zip code.

And so what the CSS profile will do is with all their algorithms and how it’s designed, it will look at your zip code and when we’re doing the analysis, it would treat, it will take consideration where you live. We know the cost of living in San Francisco. It’s gonna be a lot more than it might be in, in, uh, I don’t know, Williamstown, Massachusetts.

Um, and so the, there, these things are factored into the, the system to kind of recognize that. Now people might say, yeah, no, it’s not enough. We understand that. But the idea is that it is there. If you have concerns about that, again, speak to your financial aid office and, and, and make sure that you’re getting recognized for living in an area that the cost of living is, is much, much higher.

People in San [00:48:00] Francisco, the value of their homes are astronomical compared to the same homes someplace else. We know that. And again, the zip code plays a role in that. Um, and have that conversation with your, your, um. Offices and ask them how are they gonna treat that and what it might mean for you.

Shawn Morrissey: Like we have a couple questions about families who, for whatever reason, didn’t use the traditional types of retirement accounts when they do their savings. So they’re. It’s showing it’s just an irregular savings or investment account, not marked as a retirement account. How did they report that on the CSS profile?

Mike Goodwin: Yeah, so, and this comes up often with families who might have three or four or five rental properties, apartment buildings, and they’ll share with us. Yeah. But I’m planning on selling those and that’s my retirement funding. We can’t count it that way because ’cause. [00:49:00] We don’t know what’s gonna come down the road, so we are still gonna count that as an asset.

Um, if your savings account is, you know, our, our outside, non-qualified investments, um, or what you’re relying on your retirement, we still have to count those because we can only, we only, um. Retirement, ex formalized retirement accounts about things that we will not use. Anything else colleges are gonna look at again, and I, I know I keep hunting on this, but that’s a conversation to have with your financial aid office.

And I would say don’t have it in a large group setting at an open house asking these questions, make an appointment with a financial aid, um, advisor at the school you’re interested in. Ask them how they might look at that. These are the kind of things that we see on appeal. Um, and I’ll tell you, just share from my experience that the family income is not necessarily high, but that asset [00:50:00] value is, and they share that with us.

Then there are ways we may look at that to help a family, um, preserve some of that for, for retirement. But still have to look at it fairly to all families we meet with. ’cause it’s all about being equitable to everybody. Um, um, and recognize, just to help, you know, we’re gonna try to help, but we have to keep, we have to be fair to all families we work with.

I’ll sure that’s a common question that comes up and every school’s gonna look at it. I, I’d even say maybe even advisor might look at it differently. So it’s worth having that conversation.

Jennifer Bento: This question came up a couple times, um, and I know we hear it too. Um, what if the a the noncustodial parent refuses to provide financial information? What’s suggested in that scenario?

Mike Goodwin: Yeah, I, I’ll speak from our, from our standpoint, we will hold it out there until [00:51:00] we get information from that parent. Um, if the, again, if the situation is.

It’s a violent, it’s, there’s a fearful situation that I cannot approach my non-custodial parent for this information. If there’s a history of violence, if there’s a history of mental illness, we’ll waive that parent. We’ll work with you on waiving that parent and such if a parent, if it’s not there and you sub and the student celebrates every holiday with his parent and visits every weekend and has regular phone calls, and they have a great relationship, but they just do not want to contribute this information.

College is gonna probably probably hold out on that because again, you can, you can, unwillingness to pay or contribute is not a reason to waive a parent. Um, so I think it’s, you know, have these conversations with those parents who are, you know, not applying until next year. Start working on this information now and, and then understanding now.

Um, most, most situations schools are [00:52:00] gonna hold out until we get that information. And if it isn’t, then you know, the schools will make the best decision they can when they may just go out with no financial aid until we get the information we need.

And I see this with all, all levels of income I’ve seen. Successful surgeons who just do not want to pay for college and, and, and, and it’s, that becomes an issue. And, and I’ve reached out to those parents and emailed them and say, we can’t go forward until we, we get information from you. Um, and most times I’ve had luck with parents coming through once, once the school reaches out to them.

Out there.

Shawn Morrissey: So, I [00:53:00] know you already spoke about, um, the special circumstance section on the CSS profile, but can you talk a little bit more about, you know, if someone has a job loss, something like that, how they can use that section or,

Mike Goodwin: sure. Yep. Yeah, and that’s great, Sean. I appreciate that question. So remember, we’re looking for 2024, right?

Prior, prior year. A lot can happen in 2025 and beginning of 2026 to families, we routinely, you know, as we walk into the end of the year, we’re gonna see a lot of job losses, um, parents reporting them and such. So if, if, if you’re filling out the profile now and you had lost your job earlier in 2025, again, that’s the special circumstances section, you’re gonna share that with us.

What most schools will do and what we would do. Is we’re gonna go out with an aid based on your 2024 income. What we do is we put a note on the award saying, let’s touch base once you complete your 2025 tax return, maybe even share your [00:54:00] 2025 W twos early on, and then we can look at an appeal. What what we do at Williams and the other schools are willing to do as well is even though we’re based on 2024.

We’re asking that for the CSS profile for to start school in the fall of 2026. If 2025 shows less income because of a job, less, uh, reduction in bonuses, uh, a capital gains maybe had big capital gains on a solve, solve a house or investments that don’t repeat in 2025, then many schools will look at your 2025 tax return once it’s completed and either base your award on 2025.

Or at least come up with some kind of average between the two. Um, so school is, you know, again, we want your students here. We want to give the best aid that we can. So sharing that information with us, letting us know. Um, I know in our case, if a family reaches out to me next week and says, I just lost my job [00:55:00] yesterday, we’re gonna ask for a three month period of time to kind of see if the parent gets reemployed.

Um, severances kick in and those kinds of things. So it might be a time period that we’re gonna ask you to wait, but more times than not, schools will want to see the 2025 to get the most accurate recent information. We can.

Shawn Morrissey: We’re almost outta time, but, um, there have been a couple of questions about the timing of the CSS profile.

Should they do that before they apply for admissions? After they apply for admissions? Does it matter? Can they do it? Um. In different sequences.

Mike Goodwin: Yeah. I think, you know, when you, when your student fills out the common app, it’s one application and they’re gonna list the colleges they’re interested in. So what I tell parents is make it a parallel process.

They’re doing the common app, you do the CSS profile, uh, and, and probably the fafsa. Um, but you’re gonna list those colleges as well. If you’re, if you’re, if, say you [00:56:00] list Williams College on your CSS profile, but your student doesn’t. We’re not gonna look at it, it’s just gonna sit there and just in the ether and tell the student tells us they’re interested in us and they, we’ll look at it.

Um, so I would, my advice is just include schools that you know your student is including on their, their common app. Um, ’cause also if you’re paying an extra $16 per school, why waste that money? Um, so, um, make sure the, those lists match up.

Shawn Morrissey: We’re pretty much at time, but I wanted to, there are a few questions that are pretty specific that, um, families are asking. Do you recommend that they call their, the financial aid office at the schools they’re applying to, um, to ask them those questions to see the best way to report certain things?

Mike Goodwin: Yeah.

I, I, yeah. You know, I, I, I do, I mean, and I, and I say that because I, I field these calls all the time, and I’ve probably, today alone, I’ve had [00:57:00] three or four of them, uh, people just asking, how do I report this? How do I, you know, the, this again, the students. Mother passed away and the father handled over the, the rights.

You know, this is what we’re here for, especially the early decision time period, um, for a regular decision. If your student’s applying to 10 to 15 colleges and you’ve got questions that are very specific, my advice is pinpoint the top two or three. Um, so you’re not making all these phone calls. Um.

Because that’s just, you know, you’re gonna be wasting your time calling all these other schools. Um, for the most part, you’re gonna find that we’re pretty consistent in our treatment. Though a few things, um, might vary a bit. Um, but I think, you know, the, the go to the source and the CSS profile is a process.

It’s an application with a function. It’s not really gonna be able to answer specific items that you’re dealing with in your life. [00:58:00] Again, that’s the, the, the special circumstances that we keep talking about. That’s not for CSS profile, that’s for the school that’s receiving your information. Um, so I would, I would recommend going to the schools and, and, and saying, uh, what they can do.

Or maybe wait till you get your award and then go back with an appeal and say, you know what? I may have not reported this correctly. Or, how would you consider this if this was the change, whatever it might be.

Shawn Morrissey: Thanks Mike. Jennifer, do you have any other questions before we finish?

Jennifer Bento: No, I don’t think so. I think a lot of them, like you said, are, are pretty detailed.

Um, so to get in touch with the, the colleges directly, so no.

Shawn Morrissey: Okay. Well thank you Mike. And again, we’ll be sending out, um, the recording and. These slides, um, to everyone within the next day or two. So thank you for joining us and thanks Mike for all your expertise. Um, you had some great information that you shared with us today.

Mike Goodwin: I [00:59:00] appreciate it. Thank you all. Good luck everybody. Enjoy this journey. Um, it’s a lot of fun. Thanks Sean. Thanks Jennifer.