Julie Shields Rutyna: [00:00:00] Alright, well welcome and good evening. Good evening everyone. My name is Julie Shields Rina, and I am the director of college planning education and training at MEFA. And would like to welcome you to this webinar this evening, which is a question and answer q and a with admissions experts. And I have lots of questions to ask these, um, you know, very talented individuals and I know you do too.

So what we’ll ask is that, um, if you have some questions and you wanna put them in the q and a, that’s great and, um, otherwise I’ll be asking some questions and, and we’ll, we’ll learn a lot. Um, if you. Have to leave early for some reason. Just know that I am recording this. So we will be sending you a link to the recording, um, in the next day or so.

And with that, I am gonna turn it over to our terrific panelists. We [00:01:00] have Joe DiCarlo from Worcester State University, Caitlyn Pro, provost from uh, TCU. And we have Jonathan El Shire from Brandeis University. And they’re gonna tell you a little bit about, um, themselves and their. Institutions before we starting on the questions.

So Joe, I guess I’ll start with you. You’re on the top of my screen.

Joseph Dicarlo: Sure. Well, good evening everyone. Uh, my name is Joe DiCarlo. I’m the Dean of Enrollment and Director of Admissions at Worcester State University. Uh, Worcester State is a public liberal arts and sciences University located in the city of Worcester, Massachusetts.

Uh, we’re medium sized. We have about, uh, just over 5,000 students on our campus. Uh, a good majority of our students come from the state of Massachusetts. We are part of the Massachusetts State University System. Uh, so, uh, some comparable schools to Worcester State would be Bridgewater State, Salem State, Fitchburg State, Framingham State, uh, in addition to, uh, Westfield State and, and obviously Worcester State, um, we offer about 90 different majors and minors at Worcester.

[00:02:00] Uh, some of our more popular programs or larger size programs are our business administration major, a biology major, criminal justice psychology, and our nursing program. But again, we offer programs across, uh, the humanities and social sciences as well as the. Uh, science, technology, uh, and health sciences, uh, as well.

Average class size is small, around 21 students. Our student faculty ratio is 14 to one, so you get a pretty personalized academic experience. Uh, at Worcester State. We are a 24 7 residential campus. Our students are engaged with lots of activities outside of the classroom, including, uh, participating in our, in our, uh, Commonwealth, uh, honors program.

We offer internships, research opportunities, uh, on campus. Students will also take advantage of study away or study abroad experiences. Um, again, we are residential. We have a four year housing guarantee. So for students that do wish to live on campus, they’re guaranteed on campus housing for their dur, the duration of their time at Worcester State, um, very active student body, about 45 different clubs and organizations.

We also offer division three [00:03:00] athletics. Um, some of the reasons why students choose to attend Worcester State beyond it just being a really great university. Um, our campus is on the west side of the city. We’re a fully contained campus on about 58 acres with state-of-the-art facilities. It just has a really comfortable, safe, and secure, uh, feeling for our students.

They’re also drawn to our Major Plus program, uh, where students can complete two programs of study as part of their bachelor’s degree within the four years at no additional cost. Value is another big draw for students, uh, interested in Worcester State. Um, as a commuter student, our students pay just under $13,000 a year.

They wanna live on campus. The cost is just over $22,000 a year. Um, plus that would obviously, um, be supported by, uh, uh, merit scholarships and or financial aid as well. So it tends to be a pretty affordable option for families. Um, and from a, from an admission standpoint, it’s relatively accessible. We look for students to have a solid, uh, 3.0, a solid B average, um, a high school profile.

Um, those students are considered eligible for admission. So if you find yourself being a, a pretty solid B student, you would [00:04:00] be competitive for admission to Worcester. We do have some programs that have a higher GPA requirement, like our nursing program, for instance, closer to an a average, but we work with a broad range of students anywhere from a 2.0 to a 4.0 plus, uh, in our admissions process.

So it tends to be a, a relatively accessible, uh, option for, uh, for students both academically and financially. So happy to be here tonight and, uh, look forward to sharing some information and, and answering some questions along the way. Thanks.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And Caitlin, I’ll have you go next.

Caitlin Provost: Hello, how are y’all?

My name’s Caitlin Provost. I am the regional director of admission for Texas Christian University, TCU based, full-time up here in Massachusetts. This is my 20th year working in college admissions. I’ve been with TCU based up here for 15 years. Uh, before that I was with a small school in Virginia and before that, a small school in the greater Boston area.

I’m a western mass, born and raised my whole life, so I, I love being up here for TCU. Um, a little bit about my school. TCU is a really fantastic mid-sized, uh, liberal arts and [00:05:00] sciences private institution. We’re just over 11,000 undergrads and we are currently in a period of intentional growth. So about by 20 20 34, we hope to be closer to about 15,000 undergrads.

So a lot of really exciting stuff going on on campus. We are in the process of building, um, over 3000 additional beds on campus that should be opening by fall 2027. We are building academic buildings and parking spaces and just expanding everywhere. So TCU is in a fantastic place in the market, so we’re just kind of doubling down right now.

Um, overall, you know, I mentioned that true mid-size. I really think TCU is a fantastic combination of a personalized education with a really big school experience. So, small classroom sizes, we don’t do the big lecture halls. Average class size is about 26, 27 students. It is very discussion based, but at the same time, uh, you get the all out college experience it.

CCU. We are one of the smallest actually, but most powerful athletic schools in the country. We are a Power Five [00:06:00] Division one member of the Big 12. Um, in the past couple of years, we’ve been in the top 25 in the country in football, men’s and women’s basketball, women’s soccer, men’s baseball, equestrian, beach volleyball champions, you know, rifle tennis.

The list goes on and on and on. So it’s really awesome that you’re able to. Experience that at TCU, but without actually having to go to school with 30, 40, 50,000 students. So it’s a great combination. I think the other thing that I really wanna highlight at the current moment is just our location. So we are located in Fort Worth, Texas, which is part of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex.

It’s one of the fastest growing areas in the entire country for the job market, internships, housing market, et cetera. So it’s a really exciting time to just sort of be located where a huge population shift is heading to. Um, I’ll pass this off, you know, to my colleague Jonathan, to introduce himself. But I will just say one other thing and that I don’t usually talk a lot about rankings, but TCU is currently ranked the happiest student body in the entire nation.

So I feel like I had to let that one, let that cat out of the bag. One.[00:07:00]

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And Jonathan.

Jonathan Aleshire: All right, well good evening everyone. And welcome. Uh, my name is Jonathan Ahire. I’m the director of Admission at Brandeis University. I’ve been at Brandeis for about five years, and similar to Caitlin, also in admissions for just about 20 years, uh, at a few different colleges.

Brandeis is located in Waltham, Massachusetts. So just, uh, outside of Boston, about 3,500 undergraduate students coming from all over the country and, and all over the world. There are some really exciting things happening at Brandeis right now. We have. What we kind of refer to as the plan to reinvent the liberal arts.

And so there are a lot of new initiatives already underway and a lot that are beginning with the class that will enroll this coming fall of 2026. So some of those are making sure that career preparation is integrated into everything that it is that we do throughout the formal education at Brandeis.

So launching microcredentials [00:08:00] so you can earn specific skills and talents and areas that employers are looking for to round out your degree. A redesigned core curriculum that will launch this fall that takes these principles and to play making sure that from day one, not only do you have an academic advisor, you have a career advisor, so that you’re jointly thinking not just about your four year academic experience.

You’re thinking about that dovetailed into where does this take me and, and what happens when I complete my degree. And we also opened a new center called the Center for Careers and Applied Liberal Arts. And this is sort of our, our new hub, um, sort of a, a new center of innovation on campus, um, to really think about how do we make sure as an institution and therefore you as students, kind of keep one foot in the classroom and sort of one foot out on the, the street.

Um, because you need to understand both of those pieces to, to kind of successfully complete a degree. Um, we have about 50 different [00:09:00] majors, a lot of students double major, so that, that way of thinking and approach to education has longstanding been a part of, of Brandeis. And we’ve also long been a research one institution.

So the core of academics remains at our strength as we think about some of this reinvention that is underway right now. So, Julie, turn it back over to you.

Julie Shields Rutyna: That’s great. And before I ask my first question, I’m just gonna say that I am sitting here feeling extremely positive about all the wonderful and varied choices that, that students have with higher education.

I mean, listening to the three of you right now, that’s what I take away from that. So that’s a very good thing. Um, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about trends. What’s, what, ha has anything changed in college admissions in the last 12 to 18 months? What, what have you been seeing? Uh, Joe, I’m gonna start with you on that question.

Joseph Dicarlo: Sure, sure. Yeah. It’s been a, it’s, it’s every year in admissions is different, as long as you’ve been doing it. We’ve got 25 years, 20 [00:10:00] years I think, I’ve been in it about 23 years. And I would say after, over all these years, um, things are changing. Things are constantly involving and um, you know, there’s certainly a lot of tradition and a lot of things that we do the same each year, but there’s usually.

Definitely some, some trends that arise each year. I would say within the last 12 to 18 months, we’re seeing more and more students apply to more, more schools, right? We don’t, we’re not necessarily seeing more students applying, right? ’cause the demographic Cliffs are telling us that there’s actually less college, uh, high school graduates that will be, um, moving on to college, you know, this year and next year.

So there’s actually less students in the Northeast. But if you, you know, do any type of research on college application numbers, colleges are reporting record breaking, you know, college application numbers year over year, right? Even though there’s actually less students, um, you know, that are graduating from high school.

And, and that could be because of, you know, more student, more schools adopting the common application or, or universal applications. Uh, it could be because. More schools are sort of streamlining their admission processes to lessen barriers [00:11:00] for students waiving application fees. Um, and it’s definitely because students are casting a wider net, right?

Students are seem to be much more mobile, uh, and more willing to consider schools that are out of region. Uh, Caitlin’s a great example, right? Being here from Texas, um, you know, she’s seeing students that, you know, from New England, uh, are, are looking to move, to go down to the south, um, for school for a variety of reasons.

So students are casting a, a wider net. So you’re seeing. Back in the day, you know, maybe students were eight to 10 schools and then it was 10 to 15. Now it could be students applying to 15 to 20 colleges. Um, you know, for, for a variety of reasons. Um, another trend is pro is related to test scores. Um, you know, post COVID, we saw a lot of schools adopt test optional, uh, admission policies, but we’re seeing some changes to that rather than just sort of being more blanket test optional, leaving it up to the students to, to submit scores or not.

Um, some schools are tweaking their policies, right? So they might be moving towards actually bringing test scores back as a requirement, or maybe it’s, maybe it’s back for certain majors. Or they’re adopting test [00:12:00] flexible or test blind, uh, policies. So it’s really important for students to be, um, you know, understanding what in their college search.

Um, first taking the TE testing seriously, and certainly taking testing, but having an understanding of the types of schools that they’re applying to and how test scores, um, you know, may be changing, uh, in terms of how they’re used in the admissions process for schools that they’re, that they’re considering, um, you know, in the future.

Um, and then lastly, uh, ai, right? AI is all the buzz right now. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s rapidly changing and, and becoming part of everyday lives. Uh, students are leveraging AI in their college search process, um, and colleges are leveraging ai, uh, to help, uh, identify areas that they can do their work more efficiently and more accurately as well.

Um, we were just sort of having a conversation before we jumped on today just about, um, how AI really is starting to become part of sort of everyday life, um, you know, on our campuses and, um, you know, happy to have others share how they. How they sort of see AI becoming part of the process. But I know a lot of times if you do any type of [00:13:00] college search on a, on a college website, there very well could be some AI in the back that’s helping to answer your questions.

And students are using it to help, uh, narrow down their college search process. And colleges are adopting creative, creative ways to, uh, to utilize AI in their pro in their admission processes as well.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And Caitlin, did you have, you mentioned something that you were seeing that was a little bit different recently.

Caitlin Provost: Yeah. So I wanna touch on a couple of different things here. And one of the, one of the things that we talked about earlier, I actually wanna save for one of the later questions ’cause I think it’s more of like a future trend piece. But you know, one of the things that Joe just mentioned was talking about how.

Students are applying to more colleges and universities, but there’s actually less students in that population than there were several years ago. And that’s absolutely true. And it’s absolutely true in certain places too. There is a huge geographic shift in our country where, you know, I am based up here in New England because.

15 years ago or so, there were so many [00:14:00] students up here and we really wanted to get a foothold. And now that number’s drastically increased and I’m actually still here just to make sure that we’re fresh on top of folks’ minds and there’s like a lot of competition. Um, and so that is also the shift in other places, being a regionally based representative, I can kind of speak from that perspective.

And it’s interesting that in the field of college admissions, there’s also been a huge shift over the past, you know, five or so years to a lot of schools adding regional reps based in other part of the country. Um, I like to say that I’ve been doing this before it was popular, um, because I have been working from home for almost 20 years, but so many schools now have reps based in California, Northern California, Southern California.

Florida, Georgia, Texas is a huge one right now ’cause that is now where the massive shift in population is going. And so to stay competitive in the market and try to recruit those students, a lot of schools have based reps there. So it actually makes our jobs even harder in the places that we are located because now all these fantastic schools are in [00:15:00] what would be traditionally known as our markets trying to recruit and work with our students.

So I think that’s something interesting. I also think that due to that. A lot of schools, especially private schools, are focusing a little bit more on their own backyard in some ways. So I know that again, with such a huge shift of recruitment coming to Texas, because there’s so many college going students from that state, um, we launched a program called TCU for Texans.

Um, and it’s a financial program that if students’, families make less than X amount of money, we will be committed to fully funding said students. And I’m sure there’s programs, you know, up here of the same manner, but it’s just quite interesting, um, what enrollment management folks are kind of coming up with and doing to make sure that our schools are staying relevant and we are getting those applications and we are very competitive in the market.

And obviously, you know, finances, it’s a huge piece with the finances. Um, especially for sort of like those middle income students I feel like is where we are [00:16:00] all really. Fighting to yield these students. And now with students applying to more and more colleges, they have more and more financial options.

And that’s one of the main reasons too, that we’re seeing so many more applications out there. So it’s been quite the interesting time on the enrollment management side. Um, and I’m happy to talk about some, some geographics a little bit later as well.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Oh, that’s great. I don’t know, is there anything you’d like to add, Jonathan?

Something that

Jonathan Aleshire: I, I think that was covered really well, um, between Joe and and Caitlyn. Um, so yeah, I, I think there are, um, a lot of, uh, evolving pieces. Admissions is always changing, but they’ve hit some of the big ones.

Julie Shields Rutyna: That’s great. Thank you. So Caitlyn, I’m gonna ask you the next question, which is when you’re speaking now to parents, students, uh, they have their own ideas about this college admissions process.

And so I’ll ask, what are some things that matter more in this college admissions process and some things that matter less than they might think?

Caitlin Provost: Yeah, that’s an interesting [00:17:00] question. And so I, uh, and, and I’m sure all of us presenters on this webinar do the same, but I do a lot of these types of discussions, you know, talking about the college admission process and panels and symposiums and all this stuff.

And I think one of the most interesting things, no matter how things change over the years is sometimes when we get these, these questions, you’re gonna hear admission folks say the answer. It depends. And because. It’s very much true. Um, it depends kind of on everybody’s individual schools, what they’re looking for, how they review their process.

Um, I’ll kind of speak towards like an overarching holistic review, um, because I think everybody on this call, uh, performs holistic admission review. Um, I would say it’s a combination of everything. So in terms of the application, at least for how we read and generally in holistic admissions, at the end, end of the day, academics are going to be the number one thing we are looking at in the application process.

Um, it’s our responsibility. Um, to make sure that we are setting students up to come into our schools and be successful in the classroom. So [00:18:00] we are looking or taking a really deep dive into the transcript, grade, grade trends, course selections, um, you know, rigor depending on what’s offered as students’, particular high school, things like that.

Uh, every application we get along with the school transcript, we get something called a school profile, which is very handy dandy for us to get more information. And so we consider. Students in the context of their specific high school. So what classes are offered, what rigor is offered. It would be unfair for us to ding a student on a strength of curriculum if their school doesn’t offer any AP or IB classes, things like this.

So this is something that we all keep in mind. So I would say the academics are sort of gonna be the biggest piece on that. And then after that, I think it’s a combination. Um, after the transcript part is done, that’s when I can have some fun with an application. ’cause I really get to know the students.

So a combination of a resume. What are you involved in? For me personally, I don’t think there’s one activity that’s better than another. I just wanna see that you have passion and interest in something outside the classroom. So whether it be sports [00:19:00] or community service or you know, maybe a student has to work part-time or whatever it may be, we just wanna see that you are active.

Um, I think the letter there is a recommendation are fantastic insight and definitely an important piece for the schools who do require letters of recommendation because it really helps us to understand what kind of student we may be inviting to join our community. You know, when we hear from a teacher, um, they’re really the folks who can speak to the effort a student puts in inside the classroom.

You know, a lot of students think that they have to ask a teacher where they got an A in the class, you know, and that’s the one I should get to, like write my letter of rec. Maybe not. Maybe it’s the one where you really struggled and grinded it out to get that B because that teacher is gonna be the one who comes and says to us, Hey.

This student was not afraid to come before class, stay after, ask questions, raise their hand, and we know what kind of effort from that you’re gonna put into a class, into your classroom experience. I also think the counselor letters of recommendation are a really important part of the process because they can give insight into what kind of person and what.[00:20:00]

Student, you’re gonna come be on our campus. So I really encourage students to think wisely about the recommendations and the essay too. I think I’m gonna chat a little bit more about the essay later on, but I feel like that’s a really important part of the application because it’s really the one place where we get to hear your true, authentic voice, a student.

So that’s a big piece. With all that said and done though, you know, after the application is in, and if we have all of those things, there are more factors to consider about what’s important with an application and what’s not. For, um, some public schools, um, their in-state versus out-of-state ratio does matter depending on what the rules are for their particular state.

Things like major choices do matter. Some schools you don’t have to declare a major before you come in, and some schools don’t let you do it at all. Some schools, it’s incredibly important. Which major you choose and how competitive that program is. I know I can speak for TCU personally that we have direct entry business and nursing programs that are incredibly competitive.

So sometimes students don’t really [00:21:00] know what to put on an application, so they’re like, I’ll just study business. Um, but they don’t have the class preparation and things like that. So all of that is something very important to consider in that application process. Also too, and my last point here, and I’ll be curious to hear what other folks have to say, but institutional priorities, um, each individual school, uh, is looking for what they need for this coming year, and sometimes they are priorities that are very consistent across the board over a number of years.

And sometimes things change. So for example, maybe a. School with a large marching band. Um, all of their tuba players graduated and they need new tuba players. Well, this is gonna be year that maybe some of those folks that play the tuba have some really good luck in the admission process. Um, or maybe a school has started a new college or program and is trying to grow that.

Um, they may be looking to add more in that space. Uh, sometimes institutional priorities are very clear on a school’s website. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes it’s internal information. So that’s sort of the, it depends of college admissions. [00:22:00] Um, but I think overall, um, the most important thing is doing your research.

Finding the, the place where students feel like they can fit in and being as authentic as possible through the application process.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Alright, thank you. And Jonathan at Brandeis, how do you weigh grades and rigor and merge that with the trends that are happening?

Jonathan Aleshire: Yeah, so the, the transcript is an integral part of an application review process at, at most any institution.

Um, and, and institutions will be looking for different pieces of that transcript to understand who you are as a student, who you are as an academic, because ultimately each institution is trying to determine if you have the preparation to come and be successful in the programs that they’re offering. Um, and to ultimately complete a degree, we’re not just looking to enroll classes for the next semester.

We’re looking to enroll students to come and, um, uh, contribute to our academic communities, earn degrees and, and move [00:23:00] forward. And so, grades, rigor, and, and the story that those two pieces tell on the transcript are really important. Um, and they tell slightly different stories, grades without context. Um, don’t tell us too much.

Rigor without context doesn’t tell us too much. So grades. Uh, institutions and, and Brandeis is typically thinking about this in a few different ways. One, is there a trend line or is it steady? Right? Are you always kind of across ninth grade through the first semester of senior year earning essentially the same types of grades, or did those grades trend up or trend down?

Um, maybe it went up and down and up and down as different things were going on. And if you have steady grades, that tells a pretty clear story. There’s likely not much explanation. We’re, we’re trying to glean from that beyond, um, what’s sort of there on, on the transcript. But if your grades trended up, uh, that might indicate that you started to find your footing in high school.

You got better and better. You learned some study skills that helped, um, [00:24:00] whatever it was you kind of locked into to school. If your grades are trending down or maybe, um, they’re bouncing up and down a little bit, that’s where an admissions office typically just has the question. What’s going on? It doesn’t mean that a student is inadmissible.

It doesn’t mean that we will stop reading the application. We just want to understand that story. Is that that. Increased rigor was more challenging, and so the grades went down a little bit. Is it that you had something really large happening in your personal life for a semester or for a year and that, uh, took time away that you would’ve been spending with academics otherwise, and now we kind of see the bounce back, so make sure.

That you are providing some of that story that the transcript is starting to tell because the transcript is incomplete without your kind of contribution to that. Um, and then the rigor of curriculum that really depends on your high school, and that’s the job of the each admissions office is to understand what [00:25:00] types of classes have you taken in the context of what’s available at your high school.

We can’t just assume that every applicant has access to the same aps or the same honors classes, or even the same tracks of math courses or, or science courses. And so we take the time to understand your school, understand what’s available. So that we can assess the types of courses that you’ve taken and how they fit our particular institution.

Um, most often that’s coming in core subject areas. This, of course, can vary a little bit institution to institution, but schools that are typically really looking at the rigor are often setting your coursework in English and math and sciences and social sciences and in world languages. Um, and perhaps a conservatory is mostly concerned with, um, art or music courses.

Uh, perhaps a. Um, a, a really, uh, stem focused school is mostly concerned with math and science, but by and large, we’re [00:26:00] looking at those kind of five core subject areas. As, as the core of your preparation for college, we’ll do the specialty within your major and, and college high school is laying the foundation for that.

Um, and sometimes, and, and Caitlin actually mentioned this, there are specific programs at an institution that has a specific prerequisite. So it might be that we jump on the transcript and we say they’re applying to the engineering program. Did they reach calculus or they’re applying to this program, did they take physics?

Or, or whatever that may be. So it’s important also the schools that you’re applying to and the programs within those schools that you’re applying to make sure your transcript is kind of set up and prepared for that particular program and institution so that the school continues to study those trends and that that coursework, um.

If you’re not currently applying to colleges, meaning you still have a another year likely of high school to go, you have time to influence your course schedule, [00:27:00] um, uh, based on perhaps what some of the programs are that you may be interested in. So now is the time to do that research, not right before you click submit on the application, and you’re in the middle of senior year and, and you can’t make those, those adjustments.

Um, but the, the trends of rigor and of grades come together and really tell us who you’ve been as an academic, and that’s, that’s just so important in the admissions review process. Right.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Well, Caitlin, you mentioned the essay briefly, um, in the last question, so I’m just gonna ask you to say a couple, a couple more words about what makes a good essay.

Caitlin Provost: A couple. Oh my goodness. You’ve got folks on here. We can talk all day about these things. Right? I know. No, so I, I mentioned earlier that, you know, I really enjoy the essay aspect of the application because I do feel like that is the one place where students are able to get across their unique and individual voice.

So I wanna talk a little bit about that. Um, first of all, if a college has their own [00:28:00] application and their own required essay, some schools out there have very specific essays and very specific requirements. Be sure to. Right on that said essay topic. Um, however, for the schools like TCU, um, that are a little bit more broad and we’re on the common app and there’s numerous choices and everything, truth be told, I don’t care what students write about, as long as I’m learning something about the student, I feel like there are so many misconceptions and pressures out there that it has to be this specific essay topic, you know?

And it has to be about overcoming and things like that. I’ve actually had students come and say to me, I don’t know what to write my essay about because nothing that bad has ever happened to me. And my response is, well, thank goodness. Like, I’m very happy to hear that. It doesn’t have to be that big overcoming story, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, I tore my.

ACL and this I is how I recovered. I swear there’s not an ACL left in New England, by the way, or, you know, I didn’t make the JV hockey captain, but I really overcame. And you know, if [00:29:00] those things encapsulate you and explain, you know, what you want us to hear, feel free to write about that. But no, it doesn’t have to be.

Some of the best essays I’ve ever read have been about students backpacks and how, you know, they find themselves in life lessons learned through there. Um, I, I will tell a, a story and that’s, you know, uh, I think this was last year. I was doing some recruitment travel in the fall and I was leaving a, a high school and I, a student come run after me inside.

Provost, Ms. Provost, I gotta ask you something about the essay. I said, all right, what’s up? And she’s like, I’m, I’m working on these two essays. And I’m like, all right, tell me about the first one. She said, man, I’m really excited about this essay. You know, it’s all about my summer job and how I’ve been working at this restaurant for the past three years and I’ve worked up from being a hostess, um, to like a table buser.

And now that I’m gonna be 18 this summer, I can be a server. And it’s so important ’cause I’m following in the steps of, you know, my sisters and I’m meeting all these new people and learning things about the world and I can’t wait to tell you about it. And I, I’m like, wow, it sounds great. What’s the other one about?

And she’s like, awesome community service project I did. It’s because people feel like there are those [00:30:00] topics that they should be writing about. So think to yourself as an admission person sitting behind that computer, which one of those essay topics am I gonna be more excited to read? Probably the one that’s really exciting, the students.

So for what that’s worth. Um, I would also say too, just proofreading. I realize that sounds really goofy, but please take the time to proofread your essay and show that you’ve put that effort in. Also, remember that you know, while the essay is the focus, it may not be the only place that we do see writing in the application.

So for schools that have supplement questions or for students who choose to write additional information or even in communicating with admission officers, just be aware. That we’re getting writing skills from those too. So just try to keep track of your communication and proofread everything. At the end of the day.

I really encourage students to just be as genuine as you can. Um, for those of us who have been doing this a long time and everybody on this call has, we can very much tell when it’s not a student’s authentic voice, when it sounds more like a parent or an essay coach or AI or things like that. So we wanna hear from [00:31:00] you.

I would rather have an application in an essay that’s less than perfect, but actually sounds like it’s coming from a 17-year-old.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yeah, very important. And actually, Joe, I’m gonna jump to you and just, it came up a couple of times already about institutional priorities, and can you just maybe say a few words about, about how that does affect, uh, the decisions that, that you make on your campus?

Sometimes,

Joseph Dicarlo: yeah. I mean, uh, institutional priorities are probably above our pay grade, right? Those are typically set by, uh, board of trustees, presidents, uh, president’s cabinets, typically, you know, the executive leaders on the campus. And those are really identified to meet a variety of goals that the institution Right, have, might have.

Right? I mean, usually primarily they’re focused around enrollment, especially for colleges or universities that are dependent upon tuition, uh, to sustain the financial, you know, operations and of running a university. Um, but they also are, you know, can be identifi, can [00:32:00] identify. Um, other areas of the student body as we’re trying to ultimately build a community on our campuses, right?

A community that is academically prepared to be successful, but a community that also where there’s a differing of perspectives that sort of enrich the overall campus experience. So I think Caitlin alluded this, uh, to a few questions ago. You know, institutional priorities could be focused around just overall enrollment.

Um, you know, right now, particularly in the Northeast colleges are hyperfocused on maintaining their enrollment in a pretty challenging admission landscape, right? With, with less high school students out there, you still have a huge concentration of colleges here in the Northeast. So we’re all not, we’re not vying for more students, we’re vying for less students.

But you still have the same number of colleges, right? So if a student chooses not to go to college, a. Uh, and they go to college B. That means there’s one less student that college A has to, uh, you know, has to, has in order to recruit to their university. So, um, in enrollment numbers is a big institutional priority, but it could be other factors like, you know, trying to [00:33:00] ensure enrollment in a particular major or students from, you know, outta state or international students or, or, uh, students of a diverse background.

Um, could be trying to fill a certain, you know, athletic roster or position on, uh, you know, the school marching band. Um, it really depends on the individual institution and sort of what they see, what they value in terms of different types of goals that they’re trying to meet in building their community, but also making sure that they, um, have the, the ability to sustain the operations.

You know, at the university, particularly, again, if they’re a school that’s dependent upon the tuition dollars that come in to support the operation, you find that more so at schools, maybe smaller private schools that don’t have really big endowments. Um, you know, public universities have a little less pressure because there’s, they’re typically, um, a certain percentage state supported.

Um, but the institutional priorities are gonna be set by the leadership on campus, uh, relayed to, you know, the admissions office. And our job is to go out and do the best that we can to try and help the university achieve a, achieve those goals. [00:34:00] Because in essence, what’s that? What that’s doing is it’s aligning with what the, you know, the institution believes in, uh, in the best way to serve.

Its its community. Um, and so that’s typically how, um, you know, how the institutional priorities work at on college campuses, but it’s gonna vary greatly from, from each school, right? ’cause we all have our own individual identities and sort of what we’re looking for, how we define, you know, the mission and the values of the university and the institutional go goals and priorities typically feed into that.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yep. Now, another topic we get a lot of questions about at MEFA is about. Uh, schools being test optional or test free. So, Jonathan, I don’t know, can you, can you talk a little bit about how, about those policies and about how they’re actually being applied on different campuses?

Jonathan Aleshire: Yeah, so those really are kind of the, the most common types of policies, tests required test optional or test free, test blind.

So tests required that one doesn’t need as much explanation. They require the test. You must submit SAT [00:35:00] or a CT. Test optional means it is typically your decision whether you decide to send testing or not. And one of the, the pieces with that is to do a little bit of research on the school you’re looking at to make sure that the test optional applies to the things that you’re interested in.

Um, if you just Google and c School A is test optional, it might mean that that particular. Scholarship you’re interested in requires tests, or that particular sub-program requires tests, so you want to make sure that it, it really is your choice to submit testing or not for the program or scholarship or deadline or whatever it may be that you’re interested in with, with that particular school, within the school, with the test optional choices that students are making, um, we’re typically seeing test scores that may be within or above some of our averages.

Those test scores don’t, the, the ones kind of right and the averages don’t always tell us much more about an applicant, right? [00:36:00] That’s the average that that institution is seen across their admitted students. Um, and so it is, uh, it’s not necessarily a big ad. It’s also not necessarily a big concern from the admissions office.

It just kind of continues to tell the story that, that perhaps they’re seen elsewhere. Um, when your scores perhaps start to fall pretty far outside of a range that an institution has provided, that’s where the test optional really may be in your advantage to think about not submitting those, those test scores.

Um, that’s something to talk with your college counselor about. They know you, they know your curriculum, they know your grades, they know the schools you’re considering really well to understand what those test optional policies may be is their preference and an admissions process for students with testing.

And is it better to have those on file? You likely won’t have your final college list of where you’re applying until right on those deadline days. So for that reason, because so many are test optional. I would [00:37:00] encourage everyone to take the test, make sure you have a score. So that is an option you get to choose.

It’s not something you’re potentially precluding yourself from. Those tests required schools down the line, if you become interested in those, or perhaps a school this summer that’s test optional changes their policy, um, you want to make sure that all of those options are on the table for you. And so I think it’s important that you, as you’re able to prepare and take either the SAT or the a CT so that you have that benchmark to determine.

It might be that for a few of your schools, it’s important to submit that test and maybe for other schools. You end up deciding not to submit that exam as a part of it, and then the school will use that in their, their review process. Test free or test blind essentially takes the choice away and says, even if you send it to us, even if College Board or ECT sends us this score.

We’re not gonna look at it, we’re not going to see it. It displays nowhere in your admissions file. Um, and [00:38:00] so those schools are essentially removing that variable no matter how strong or how weak, um, or how in the middle those test scores may be. It’s not something that an admissions officer or an admissions office is looking at.

Um, so it’s really that test optional piece where you have the choice in the agency to figure out which is right for your overall application process. And, and each school does do that a little bit differently. So it’s, it’s important to do some of that research. Um, at Brandeis when tests are there, we look at them, we use them, we think about them.

When we’re not there, we just move forward with the rest of the application. Test scores are never the end all, be all. It is one sliver. It is one component of what is a part of your application, um, is what is a part of your kind of academic background. So it’s just one piece that you can add or one piece that you can decide it is not a part of the story, um, that you want to be shared with, with admissions.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you for all of that. You know, we have two questions from the audience, so I’m gonna just put [00:39:00] those out there and see if, um, you all wanna react. The first is, do colleges with super low admissions rates focus on different components of an application than other colleges, or is it similar? So I don’t know if one of you would like to take that.

Jonathan Aleshire: Um. I would say that colleges are typically focusing on the same types of things, right? Academics matter to every college. Who you are as a person matters to every college. What’s different at perhaps a, a highly selective college or the students that are being read and looked at next to you in, in that application pool.

So it’s not that they care more or less about something, um, or that they value it more or less, it’s just who’s in their application pool? How many seats do they have in their first year or their transfer class to consider for you? Um, I was a part kind of outside of my [00:40:00] work at Brandeis, uh, working with the National Merit Scholarship.

Corporation that this winter, reading some of the top students from across the country to make some of those scholarship determinations, um, uh, to, to serve on that committee. And it’s incredibly challenging because students are so talented. When I’ve worked at institutions that are. Less selective. Um, it’s still incredibly challenging because no matter the selectivity, um, you are a person.

We are people we’re trying to understand you. We’re trying to understand that background, um, and thinking about that enrollment to the, the class. So, um, uh, yeah, I, I think that it’s the, the numbers may look a little bit different. How many applications or an average GPA to a school based on their, their admit rate.

Um, but the admit rate is also not giving an institution, um, value or agency. Don’t assume that a low admit rate means a [00:41:00] high quality education or experience. You need to see where do you thrive? Where will you excel, what school will give you the opportunities that, that you are seeking and that will challenge and push you forward in, in your future.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And one more, um, which I think is a good one too. How important is having a consistent theme or narrative in your application? For example, if a student’s activities focus on teaching or working with children, but they plan to major in a science field, is that seen as a strength or a lack of direction?

Caitlin Provost: I think that’s very much gonna be an, it depends situation. I would say for the vast majority of schools and programs. It would be seen as a strength. I love a well-rounded application ’cause again, it shows that students are going to come to our colleges and universities and be global citizens and be interested in more than just one thing and be able to [00:42:00] make an impact in many areas.

So I personally very much enjoy that. I do think that there is a way though to combine the two for those uber competitive programs where something like this might matter more. And that’s really a lot about doing your research and um, you know, Joe and Jonathan have spoken about this earlier, but really looking into, you know, the schools that you’re applying to and preparing for, you know, those classes in senior year and really thinking far in advance.

And so if you are a student who’s very much loves working in the community and with kids, but wants to go into a science major, that’s great. But again, make sure you have all of those required science courses that you know a school is looking for. That’s gonna be very important. If you have questions about what those are.

This is what we do. We are admission folks, reach out to us with questions. We’re happy to guide you, we’re happy to answer those questions. I also think that too though, there there are other ways to combine other, um, activities and things like that. So for example, for our nursing program at TCU, one of the big things [00:43:00] that we focus on in the admission process for said program is going to be experienced in the healthcare healthcare field.

So, um, whether that be hospital shadows, CNA programs, volunteering, whatever it may be, that’s a very important part of the program. So you can still, you know, work with kids and have that on your resume, but also include some of these other items. So again, for the most part, I think it’s seen as a huge strength being well-rounded.

And if there are any questions or any ways, um, that you’re unsure of how to sort of bolster your resume to look good for a particular college or program, we are help. We are here to help answer those questions for you.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And Joe, can you maybe just talk about what, what should parents, students, families be thinking about, um, knowing the admissions trends, some of which you’ve already talked about, and how they’re gonna shape admissions and colleges in the last, in the next two or three years.

So looking forward a little bit.

Joseph Dicarlo: Um, I mean, I [00:44:00] think some trends, um, that, you know, might sort of rise to the top. Um, I think what, what I’m seeing, at least in my institution is that students are, and families are way more cost cons conscious than they used to be. Um, you know, I think they’re seeing the price of colleges and universities increase.

Um, you know, obviously there’s pretty robust, you know, most colleges offer pretty robust financial aid and scholarship opportunities for students. But I think more and more students, you know, are, you know, sort of questioning the value of a bachelor’s degree. Um, they, for many students see education beyond a bachelor’s degree.

So there’s sort of longer term planning on what, you know, how much is a bachelor’s degree gonna cost. And then I’m also gonna have additional schooling at the master’s or doctorate level beyond that. So they’re asking a lot of really thoughtful questions around financing their education, which I think, um, is something that, you know, maybe five or 10 years ago, or even just more recently, within the last two or three years, um, we didn’t have as many of those conversations or students weren’t factoring that into their college search process as much as they [00:45:00] are in more recent years.

And I think that’s really. Go, only gonna going to, going to continue to grow, uh, in the near future. Uh, as families become more and more aware of the cost of education, you know, what’s gonna be the return on the investment. Um, you know, what’s my job prospects gonna look like, career opportunities. Um, students are equating, um, you know, their college, the college that they choose.

Um, they’re, they’re, they’re questioning, you know, what is this college gonna do to prepare me for a job and help me get a job when I graduate? It’s really less of just kind of going to college because that’s what you feel like you need to do in terms of getting the bachelor’s degree, but you’re equating your college experience directly into, you know, what’s, what’s your end goal around employment or around, uh, you know, finding a career.

And that sort of, again, kind of ties into your earning potential and, uh, and, you know, the cost of the cost of the education as a whole. So I sort of see that as, as, uh, as a big trend, uh, that’s only gonna continue to grow in the next, you know, two to three years.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yeah. I, I think, um, we’re seeing a lot of that too.

And [00:46:00] actually, Jonathan, I’ll ask you this next question, which I think goes to that, that we know that families are really paying attention to those things. Are there things that you’re doing on your campus to balance, access, affordability and, and all of that? Um, yeah.

Jonathan Aleshire: Yeah. A absolutely. Admissions offices, I think are hyper aware that the cost of attending college is.

An important factor in a family’s decision on where to attend. It’s a stressor for some families. Um, and there are so many resources out there, um, like, like MEFA to assist and, and provide a lot of guidance. Um, but from the admission office perspective, um, it, it Brandeis we’ve done a couple things. Um, I heard Caitlyn say something similar, but we’ve created the Brandeis commitment.

So certain income thresholds have a guarantee of full tuition or half tuition being covered. So without even needing to go through the process of applying for financial aid, if [00:47:00] you’re in certain income brackets, you know, um, that the, the tuition can be fully or partially covered. Um, we’re also thinking about the, um, kind of access and affordability lens a little bit through merit scholarships as well.

Um, financial aid has a lot of calculations. It takes a lot of family information and family dynamics to put together. Merit scholarships are something that an admissions office typically has a bit more say in. And so when an admissions office finds those students that we’re really excited about, um, and really hope to enroll in our campus, um, we can think about them often for a merit scholarship as a way to try to acknowledge their hard work to try and help, um, perhaps offset some of the, the costs of a, a particular institution.

Um, those. Pressures are there on families and, and we see that. Um, schools also have a net price calculator that can often give you and your family an [00:48:00] estimate. They can be a pretty broad range. So it, it may not specifically, um, pull down and, and say like, yes, the school will definitively work for me. But, um, it will let you see that like, yes, financial aid is likely for you at this particular school, um, or substantial financial aid is perhaps, likely for you at this particular college.

Um, most important around kind of balancing some of the, the affordability and, and access is don’t let the sticker price what you see when you pull up. How much does a college cost make your decision on whether or not to apply to that particular school. Um, it could be that. Whatever school currently holds the most expensive spot in the country in terms of total cost of attendance, ends up being the most affordable college for you to attend.

Um, and it might be that the most affordable college located next to, to you and in your hometown, um, ends up being more [00:49:00] expensive than other schools that you were offered admission to. So paying attention to those financial aid deadlines, paying attention to those merit scholarship deadlines so that that full piece can come together.

Um, and then I, I think another lens of sort of the, the access and affordability, it’s not just about that first year. We know there are subsequent years to earn that degree. And so what type of commitments is an institution making to future funding? Are they guaranteeing a need-based financial aid package across your four years?

Um, is a merit scholarship renewal. Um, easy or does it have a really high threshold of A GPA or, or internal standards that might put that merit scholarship in question. Um, so not just looking at that, that first package, but thinking about what does that mean in the out years and the sophomore, the junior and, and the senior year.

Um, and finally the other piece that I think a lot of schools are trying to do as being as transparent and clear as possible and financial aid offer letters, um, and [00:50:00] so that the language is similar, um, across a lot of schools, making sure that it’s clear what is essentially. Gift financial aid, meaning it’s just money that you don’t have to repay versus what might be a loan or what might be something like federal work study where it’s actually institutional, um, funds that, that you aren’t seeing because you’re going and you’re working a job on campus and you receive a paycheck.

And the goal is that that paycheck is then going towards the, the cost of attendance. So really breaking those categories out cleanly so that you can make sense of multiple financial aid offers.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. Thank you. And Caitlin, I’m gonna ask you a question that we’re hearing a lot of, and someone asked it just now tonight as well.

How are colleges using AI in the admissions process?

Caitlin Provost: Oh, ai. I had to get that question. So I think the biggest. Thing about AI is just like the unknown and people don’t know what’s going on with it, and that’s what makes it [00:51:00] scary. Um, I’ll be honest and tell you that I think a lot of colleges and universities are still kind of in that gray space, in the unknown, a little unsure of how this is gonna come in over the years.

Um, I, I think first of all, not even in the admission process, but I think AI in general, in, you know, the, the college search and application process can be a really great tool. Um, maybe you’re a student that hasn’t had a lot of access to schools farther away from where you live. So ask ai, ask, what is his name?

Claude Chap, GPT, all the guys. I’m very non-technical, but explain what you’re looking for, what you might want. It’s a great way to kind of help with that college search process. Also for, you know, ideas about yourself. Like, Hey, these are the values that I have, these are what’s important to me, you know, how could I possibly highlight that in a college application?

Asking for ideas, asking for things like that. It’s great for idea generation. What it’s not great for is using it to write your college.

Um, again, I mentioned this before, but those of us who are. Um, you know, I wouldn’t say [00:52:00] experts but who have been around this field for a very long time. We can very much spot differences between something that’s genuine and something that’s coming through ai. A lot of schools out there too, um, you know, I’ve read articles on, are starting to bring AI checkers into their application review, so be aware of that.

Um, that some of that information is being flagged. And so that’s not great in the application process, but I think in terms of how most admission offices are using it currently, um, is exploration, seeing kind of how does it fit in with our process? Because at the end of the day, schools like all of ours on this call, who do perform a holistic admission review, don’t want to leave the humanity behind.

We want to have a say in these processes. You know, again, AI is great for certain things, but AI is not gonna pull the human stories that we can pull and understand what a student has been through, like we can. Through our sort of expert lens in terms of this, uh, we were chatting earlier before the webinar started.

I think a lot of schools are looking at it for more of like math. So looking at transcripts and calculating, you know, [00:53:00] different GPAs or counting classes. It doesn’t mean that the admission folks aren’t gonna be looking at those transcripts. ’cause of course we are, you know, for grades and strength of curriculum, but just some of the math that could actually help us to, um, get rid of human error.

So, um, I just wanna stress that it’s, we’re sort of in an unknown. We’re all learning together, we’re all implementing in different ways, but it will not take away from the humanity aspect. I say that now, 10 years from now, if we do a reunion of the Zoom call, you know, who knows where we’re gonna be at that point in time.

But currently I think we’re all working in higher ed and all working in admissions because we care about students, we care about student stories and we wanna help with access. Um, and if AI can help us a little bit to get there, then let’s do it.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Yeah. Thank you. Alright, we just, we have just a few minutes left and we have, um, we do have a few questions.

So I, I am gonna see if I can ask them and we’ll just, maybe, maybe we’ll do, what do they say on some podcasts? I listen to lightning round or, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll just sort of finish up with some of [00:54:00] these, um, before our parting words. So, uh, let me ask, how much effort should be put into applying for scholarships versus on essays during the summer between junior and senior year?

Is there a point at which there are diminishing returns in applying for more scholarships? I don’t know if someone wants to say a few words about that, but

Jonathan Aleshire: I, I don’t know that there’s a specific juncture of x number of applications from merit. Scholarships is where it starts to diminish. I would say the diminishing returns start when you stop. Working as hard for that, you stop putting the thought and the effort into whatever that application may be for the scholarship or we’re working on those scholarships is starting to impact your academics.

Um, the other areas that you’re involved in, responsibilities you may have with family. Um, this should, should ideally dovetail into that process and it’s, it’s a lot of work. Um, working on it in the summer is a really [00:55:00] great way to help create some of that balance. Um, but if the, the scholarships that you’re applying for will make college more accessible for you and, and your family, um, then it’s worth as much as you’re able to, to put in the time, um, to seek those, those different scholarships.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. Then we have a question. Do students who attend technical schools have a disadvantage when it comes to being admitted to college?

Joseph Dicarlo: I would, I mean, quickly. No, I mean, I, I think so long as the student has taken us a, um, uh, a college prep or standard level coursework curriculum, that’s gonna prepare them for a traditional sort of four year bachelor’s degree. Um, technical high schools are great now. They’re offering AP courses. They typically have a dual enrollment or early college, um, you know, component to their programming as well, uh, honors courses.

So you can certainly get the academic rigor. At a technical school with also the added benefit of, of a particular skill, uh, or training, um, that, you know, could [00:56:00] directly align with, um, you know, what you’re interested in studying in college. For instance, we have lots of students applying to our nursing program that are in a health sciences or CCNA track at a technical school.

So they’re getting hands-on experience as a nurse. So it helps us feel confident in admitting them to our, to our program because they have some exposure to nursing already, uh, at, uh, before they even get to the college level. So, definitely doesn’t hurt. I think it just depends on the school. And again, so long as the student is taking, um, you know, a standard college prep level course, course schedule, that’s gonna be preparing them for, for college level bachelor’s degree work.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. And this person says that their, uh, child was a CD student for ninth and 10th grade and has now become an A student in 11th grade. Any quick tips and strategies for that application, that college application?

Caitlin Provost: Yeah, I’m, I’m happy to, to add a few words about this. Um, when talking about transcripts and trends and rigor earlier, Jonathan, um, did allude to the fact that we look at things [00:57:00] like grade grade trends.

Do students have an upward trend, a downward trend, a wavy trend, and even trend? You know, we’re looking at all of that. Um, and so it is something that we will keep in mind if a student who was maybe not doing so well academically has finally kind of found themselves, gotten their feet underneath them and turned that around.

With that said, um, don’t let the transcript just be the whole story. Um, what I often like to say is that in the college admission process, we don’t know what you don’t tell us. And so if we walk from away from an application going. Huh, that’s probably not great. Um, and so hopefully this will be a place where like a counselor letter of recommendation or something would talk about, you know, that academic turnaround or for students using the common application for that additional information section.

Perhaps explaining, hey, what was going on during those first couple years? Um, was there, you know, a personal issue, something happening that kind of attributed to those lower grades? Or maybe this was just a case of a student, you know, not feeling confident academically and now they do [00:58:00] explaining that to admission officers.

I do think it’s incredibly helpful for us.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you. Well, this was wonderful. So informative. Um, thank you. Do you have any last takeaways? Do you have quick takeaway for, um, the families before we say goodnight?

Jonathan Aleshire: I think my, uh, my closing thought is the college search and college application process can be overwhelming, but the fact that you are either joining this webinar tonight or watching this later, um, means that you are being proactive.

You’re taking the steps to own your search, um, to do the research. And that will take you a long way. Um, keep owning the research, keep doing the work, um, and you will see the, the benefit of that as you kind of continue to move through the application process.

Caitlin Provost: I’ll just piggyback off of that too, that I fully agree and support that.

Um, in terms of the college process being overwhelming, it can be for both families and students. So [00:59:00] my biggest suggestion is going to be especially when the applications start rolling in, you know, for those rising seniors throughout late summer and the fall and kind of through that process when you’re getting admission and financial decisions back.

Maybe pick a night a week to talk about the college process. Maybe it’s Taco Tuesday. You sit down and kind of talk about things and your options and where you’re applying and all those financial aid packages, because sometimes if it’s just an every day, like what are you doing for college? What are we doing for this?

It can be very overwhelming to a student who’s just trying to get through that senior year in one piece. So be very smart and collected, um, in terms of when you choose to have those conversations.

Julie Shields Rutyna: That’s good.

Joseph Dicarlo: I’ll just add, uh, the power of the campus visit. Uh, still incredibly important in this process.

We, we’ve made it really easy for students to take virtual tours, to do virtual meetings, uh, you know, to, uh, you know, we send lots of email and mail and, uh, and, and respond as quickly as we can. But getting on campus and actually seeing it and envisioning yourself there is incredibly power [01:00:00] powerful and I think will help go a long way in your decision making process on which college you end up choosing.

Julie Shields Rutyna: Thank you so much. Thank you to all of you. And thank you to everyone in the audience and the great questions that you brought here tonight. And, um, yes, there are a few things in the chat. Thank you Caitlyn, for, um, putting your email there and, uh. If anyone needs to, I

Caitlin Provost: think that went to only hosts and panelists, but if anybody has questions Oh,

Julie Shields Rutyna: okay.

Caitlin Provost: My implications on the TCU website. Please reach out with questions.

Julie Shields Rutyna: That’s perfect. That’s perfect. And you can always be in touch with Mefa and I hope you are, we’re happy to help you through this whole process as well. So thank you again and everyone have a good evening. Thanks.