Jonathan Hughes: [00:00:00] Starting college is a beginning, and it happens at the end of a long process. You visited colleges, compiled a list, applied, probably applied for financial aid, got your decisions, and made that big decision. But sometimes the college that you selected in that big decision isn’t the final stop. It’s not where you stay.

And that can be for a variety of reasons. Maybe you intended from the beginning to start at one school and finish somewhere else. Or maybe, as much as you thought you wanted to attend the school that you chose, it just turns out differently. Now, that can be hard, but the good news is that you can transfer to another college that might be a better fit.

Now, transferring is a big decision too, and in some ways it’s a harder decision. Maybe students don’t want to second guess themselves, or maybe they’re afraid they’ll disappoint people by leaving their first school. Or maybe the prospect of choosing a new college and going [00:01:00] through the whole application and financing process is just too daunting. But students who are considering transferring should know this: it’s not a failing, and it is not at all unusual.

In fact, about one-third of all college students transfer once before earning their bachelor’s degrees. In fact, I’d say it shows real determination and a real fidelity to yourself to make sure you get what you really want out of your college education. But how do you know whether or not to transfer?

And if you do know, what steps do you need to take to actually do it? As I said before, it’s a process. So if you’re thinking about it, you might benefit from hearing from some folks who have done it and learning from their experience. They’re two of our MEFA colleagues, Lauren Danz and Lisa Rooney. Lisa, welcome, and Lauren, welcome back to the MEFA podcast.

Lauren Danz: Thank you. Thank you.

Jonathan Hughes: So you’re here because you have transferred. You have experience transferring [00:02:00] colleges, and I know they’re different experiences. Pretty different, actually. Where did you start, and then where’d you transfer to? Lauren.

Lauren Danz: I started right out of high school at UMass Amherst. After about a week, I transferred to UMass Boston for a semester, and then I transferred to Emmanuel College for the second half of my freshman year, and I stayed there through graduation.

Jonathan Hughes: Two transfers. Yeah. Okay. Lisa.

Lisa Rooney: I did a full year my freshman year at Worcester State, and then I would say probably halfway through the year, I didn’t think it was a fit. I had some roommate issues, was going home a lot, and I graduated from Framingham State, but I kind of took a windy road to get there.

There were a few transfers in between.

Jonathan Hughes: Okay. So we will get to that. Yeah. I know there was a couple more- Yeah … even than Lauren, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you’re both, in a sense, transfer experts. Yeah … so I will ask you then, how did you know so quickly that the school that you initially chose was not a fit for you?

Lauren Danz: Yeah, I [00:03:00] think it was just so different from what I was used to. I came from a pretty tiny high school. There were, like, maybe 120 kids in the graduating class. And I grew up, right outside the city. So then to be suddenly at this huge school with 20,000 kids at it, and it was really just kind of it felt like the school was there, but then there was nothing around it. It’s kind of out in, Western Mass, not a ton of other stuff going on. It was just very different than I was used to, and it was a really big adjustment, and I realized maybe it wasn’t the right adjustment.

Lisa Rooney: School was great for me.

I liked all of my classes. I adjusted really well there. I was living on campus, and a- again I think I mentioned I had a few roommate issues. So I found myself finding any excuse to get off campus. Halfway through my freshman year, I started thinking “What’s my career path?

What do I really want to do?” And I thought I wanted to be in healthcare. I wanted to help people at the end of the day. And so I started doing some research and tried to decide what is the right path and from there, I decided that Worcester State was just not going to be the [00:04:00] place for me.

Jonathan Hughes: And so you had initially enrolled to do…?

Lisa Rooney: Communications.

Jonathan Hughes: Communications. Yeah. Okay. The decision to transfer, emotionally to say “This isn’t really working out,” was that a difficult decision? Was it a difficult subject to broach with your parents, or was it hard to say, “I, I don’t think this is right”?

Lauren Danz: It was, yeah. What ended up happening was I took a bus home, and my parents were like, “Why are you here?” And I was like, “I don’t think I’m going to go back.” So they were surprised, but they were supportive. So I also think I was thinking that maybe if I got out early enough, there would still be time for me to get enrolled somewhere and not have to take a whole semester off of school, which I was trying to avoid.

Jonathan Hughes: Your mom actually helped you to keep enrolled somewhere, right?

Lauren Danz: Yes. Yeah, so she, I don’t know how she found out about this, but she ended up taking me to UMass Boston. We went in person, and I remember I was able to enroll as a non-degree-seeking student. So it was too late for me to really enroll as a full-time student, but I was essentially just taking classes, and I’d [00:05:00] have credits that I could transfer at a later date if I moved to a different college.

So because of that, I really was limited to classes that still had open spots, two weeks into the semester. So I ended up in some classes that weren’t ones I would’ve normally picked, but at least I had something. At least I was still in school.

Jonathan Hughes: So that, and as you said, that was important for the, the credits to transfer over.

Lauren Danz: Yes. I really wanted to make sure I didn’t fall behind and could still graduate in four years. So I’m glad that I was able to do that.

Jonathan Hughes: And so Lisa, maybe now is a good time to talk about your, as you called it t- as you said to me earlier- The winding road … your winding road, yes through your four-year degree.

I know you said you started off at Worcester State.

Lisa Rooney: So when I came back from winter break, that’s when I started doing a lot of the research of what my path was going to be and what I really wanted to do. I had a lot of folks in my family and friends who were in the medical field, and my biggest thing was I wanted to go somewhere where I was going to be able to not quickly get into the job market, but I wanted to make the right choice so that I wasn’t the same [00:06:00] as Lauren.

I didn’t want to be in school longer than I needed to be. So ultimately, I decided I wanted to go into an x-ray, x-ray program at the Community College of Rhode Island. It was a well-respected program. It looked really great, and I actually had a friend who was on the same path at a different school, so she and I explored that together.

So after my freshman year, a- as soon as I moved out of campus, I went to CCRI, went to the admissions office, filled out the paperwork, and just got right on board.

Jonathan Hughes: Let me, let me- Yeah … stop you there and ask a- yeah … question, because one of the things that we talk about a lot, as is the benefits of going to a community college, right?

And so I want to ask you if cost played a factor in your decision to attend that, I know the program was really- … well-respected, but was cost an additional factor?

Lisa Rooney: For me, no. But what I’ll say is I’m a first-gen student. My parents did not go to college. They did the best that they could to try and help me figure out what my journey was, but I didn’t really have a lot of guidance from that respect.

And with that, we also didn’t have any savings. [00:07:00] So my freshman year, we had loans. And so for s- going into the CCRI, I actually didn’t want to do a community college. I liked that at Worcester State it was a four-year school, and, in my head it felt a little bit like I was taking a step back.

But because the program that I wanted was not offered at a four-year school, I guess from the financial aspect it helped because the, the funding was less.

Jonathan Hughes: So the program was really, the thing that dream, yeah.

Lisa Rooney: 100%. 100%.

Jonathan Hughes: And then what happens?

Lisa Rooney: I thought I did enough research, and I didn’t.

One of the things that I did was make sure that most of my credits from Worcester State transferred over so I wasn’t essentially starting fresh. And so I was one semester away from being able to enroll into that x-ray program. So during the fall, enrolled in the English class, the, I think there was a public speaking class, a couple of entry-level medical terminology classes, that sort of thing.

And then once, I was under the [00:08:00] impression that once we completed those, then we could just enroll into the program When fall semester ended, we found out that it’s, was actually a lottery acceptance, and they were very strict. They only allowed 10 students in, and it wasn’t based on your academics.

It wasn’t based on anything. It was really whoever was on the list, they lottery accepted you. So that was a bummer.

Jonathan Hughes: And then where did you go from there then?

Lisa Rooney: So my friend and I both were disappointed, but we knew of a friend who had done a surgical technology program. A lot of the same prerequisites were applied, so it was really easy to get in. It was at MassBay Community College.

So she and I drove up together. We met with someone at admissions, and we essentially just enrolled, and I literally it I didn’t have a loan prepared. It was really quick, and so for the first semester, I literally handed the lady my credit card and paid for tuition with my credit card.

Jonathan Hughes: And just to be clear, is this something-

Lisa Rooney: No Please don’t ever pay for college with a credit card. [00:09:00]

Jonathan Hughes: Not something we’re recommending-

Lisa Rooney: No … but just something to know. Absolutely not, no.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah and so-

Lisa Rooney: That was fun. I did really great in all of the classroom work. I learned how to scrub my fingers on all of the planes, and I, it was very-

Jonathan Hughes: Th- this is what, what course is it?

What course of study is this?

Lisa Rooney: So- Surgical? … surgical tech- technician. So it’s essentially like a surgical nurse. Okay A, a nurse who’s in an operating room, and without going into all of the details once we went to the first practicum, I realized surgery wasn’t for me.

Jonathan Hughes: And so at this point, are you kind of like defeated this is happening again?

Lisa Rooney: Defeated, yeah. That would’ve been spring of my sophomore year, so my second full year in college. And so then I was like, “I just, I want a college experience,” and so I didn’t do a ton of research and applied to a couple of schools, landed at URI, which I lived on the south side of Massachusetts, so it was only about a 40-minute drive, but almost immediately I knew it, it wasn’t for me because the drive was long.

[00:10:00] The tuition was more expensive. My loan was much higher, and at that point I was a junior, so a lot of the, the kids my age, they had their established groups, and I just didn’t feel comfortable there. So at that point I was just like, “I need-” I need to graduate. I need to find the path of least resistance.

I had gotten a really great job at a country club. I was working in the office part-time. And so Framingham State was not too far from where I was working. I had friends who had went there. The cost was going to be much less. It was a bigger commuter school, but it was four years. The campus felt right, and so I enrolled, met with an advisor to make sure that most of my credits would transfer, and ultimately, that’s where I ended up graduating from.

Jonathan Hughes: And so you were there for…?

Lisa Rooney: Two years. So I did a spring semester, one full semester, and then I was only graduated a semester behind.

Jonathan Hughes: And the incredible thing is that you did this in how long?

Lisa Rooney: Four and a half years.

Jonathan Hughes: You just kept up the pace.

Lisa Rooney: Head down.

[00:11:00] Yeah. Wow. Head down, stayed focused. I didn’t want to lose momentum.

I knew that if I stopped work, I stopped going to school and started working, I would have a hard time getting back up, so I just wanted to stay with it.

Jonathan Hughes: And Lauren, you went to, from UMass Boston to where?

Lauren Danz: I went to Emmanuel College.

Jonathan Hughes: And what made you decide to go to Emmanuel College?

Lauren Danz: So when I had been originally looking at colleges in high school, there were, like, 10 I applied to, and that was one of them.

So I figured when I transferred, I’d probably end up at one of the 10, since I already was familiar with them. And Emmanuel was, It’s a private school, so it was more money than the state school I had been at, but they had given me a pretty good scholarship, which brought the price down to be about the same as I would’ve been paying at UMass Amherst, so finances were definitely a big factor there.

It was a much smaller school. There’s, I think there’s only 400 kids per grade there, and it’s in the city, which was nice, and it was a lot closer to my home and all my friends that were still there, which was a big factor.

Jonathan Hughes: And did that help you ensconce yourself in the campus? How did you find a [00:12:00] home there?

Lauren Danz: Yeah. Honestly, I should’ve gotten more involved in campus. Being closer to home, I ended up just mostly hanging out with my friends from high school. It was fine. I was happy, so I do- That works, right? Yeah. Yeah, I ended up getting a job that was down the street at a restaurant from my college, so a lot of other kids from my school worked there, so I got to know a bunch of people that way.

Jonathan Hughes: And when you got to, to Framingham, Lisa, did you find that you had- a group after transferring so many times.

Lisa Rooney: Yeah I was actually nervous. Commuting, it, it can be challenging to meet people, but I found really quickly that I was in, I was… Most of my prerequisites that I had to take happened prior to getting to Framingham, so I was really able to focus on the core communications aspect of it.

So I had a lot of the same people in my classes and we all commuted. We all had different stories, all about the same age, and so we would be on campus on the same days. We would meet in the library and do work together. We’d go and grab dinners afterwards. So it wasn’t like a [00:13:00] traditional joining a club, so to speak.

Yeah. But we created our own little group.

Jonathan Hughes: Was that missing at some of the previous, at all of the previous schools then?

Lisa Rooney: Yes, all of them. Yeah.

Jonathan Hughes: It’s funny because, thinking about all the different transfers and all the different reasons for different transfers and- Yeah

There are a couple of things run through. Career path, right?

Lisa Rooney: Yep, yeah.

Jonathan Hughes: Which you talked about. School environment, right? The rural and large schools versus- Yeah … small colleges. But I feel like social cohesion is a big deal, right? Yeah. You found, you had your group when you went to Emmanuel, and you, when you went to Framingham.

What do you think the most important thing? Yeah. What would have kept you at a school? Would it have been the career path? Would it have been a group of friends? Would it have been, the different environment? What do you think is the answer there?

Lauren Danz: I was, like, pretty had a pretty codependent group of friends, so I guess we-

Jonathan Hughes: Codependent group of friends.

Lauren Danz: Yeah. So I think if one of them had maybe somehow come to UMass Amherst with me, maybe then I would have had a, an easier time adjusting. But, that’s what everyone says, “Oh, you don’t want to go to college with your friends. [00:14:00] You want to try-” Yeah … to branch out and meet new people,” and they’re right.

I just don’t think at 18 I was ready to do that.

Lisa Rooney: Perhaps had I been more inclined to join some clubs, like those first few weeks on campus at Worcester State, they have all of these fairs where you can go and e- explore all of the things, and I think I was just overwhelmed with all of the options and not really knowing what the classes were going to be like, that I didn’t immediately immerse myself into some of that. And I wonder if maybe I had done that, I would have had a different experience at Worcester.

Jonathan Hughes: The roommate trouble and stuff- Yeah … that you had, that you didn’t want to be there. Yeah. You didn’t want to hang out. Did that, do you think, flow into the larger, like maybe this isn’t what I want to do”?

Lisa Rooney: Yes, 100%, 100%.

I, I think going home in the winter after the first semester and having my own friends and being back with the people that I knew, and I had a boyfriend who had gone to a different school at the time. Just experiencing all of that and being back in a more comfortable setting, going back it [00:15:00] was much harder and it made me think through I’m here.

I’m not happy in my social situation and-” I, I chose, at that point, I chose communications just because I thought I had to choose a major. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. So that’s where I started to take a really good look at what is my goal after college and what do I really want to do and how do I want to affect change?

And that’s where my road started.

Jonathan Hughes: I want to break in here and just tell you, if you know someone who is transferring or thinking about transferring, go ahead and send them this episode. Now back to the show. I want to talk actually about some of the sort of specific nuts and bolts of how you actually go about transferring, and especially if you’re transferring mid-year, as I know you did.

And are there transfer deadlines or can you just transfer at any point during the semester?

Lauren Danz: Yeah, I think there generally are deadlines. And just like standard admissions, it varies per school, so the best way is to check out the school’s website. They probably have the info on there, and just make [00:16:00] sure you meet those deadlines.

Jonathan Hughes: We often say if you have questions about how to pay for college or about financial aid, talk to the financial aid office at the college that you’re applying to. If you have questions about transferring, what are the resources?

Lauren Danz: I think the admissions office is a really good place to start. And then some schools I think also have people that are dedicated to working just with transfer students as well, depending on probably how big the school is.

And I know from my college when I transferred there, they had, at the beginning of the semester, special events just for students that had transferred there, so that was really nice. I think a lot of schools do programs like that to help people feel more, just comfortable when they get to campus.

Jonathan Hughes: Are the admissions folks the ones who help you figure out how many of your credits will transfer over and things like that? Or is that more of an academic advisor? Do you remember from any of your transfers who that may be?

Lisa Rooney: I think I actually had spoken with the admissions the ad- someone in the admissions office specifically at URI, I remember, and they were able to look at my transcript, and I think they worked with [00:17:00] different department heads.

At Framingham State, I remember speaking with an advisor, so I think it might vary from campus to campus.

Jonathan Hughes: In terms of what you actually need to get a college as part of your application, your transfer application, how you do your transfer application, what’s involved? ‘Cause I know, initially you send over essays, you send over letters of recommendation, you send over your GPA, et cetera.

How does that differ doing a transfer application?

Lauren Danz: I think part of it depends on how far into college you are when you transfer. Because I was a week into college, I didn’t have any grades from college to send over, so I sent over basically the same bundle of things that I sent over in high school.

I would imagine if you’re transferring, after you’ve done two years at college, you’d probably have to send over your college grades.

Lisa Rooney: Yes. So I had to physically go into the office at Worcester State and ask for physical copies of my transcripts. I don’t know how they do it now.

This was many moons ago. But it was a, a physical envelope that had to be sealed that I had to keep on hand. And so I, [00:18:00] for every transfer I had to go back and get pay, I think I paid $10 to get the sealed envelope of the transcripts. And then those were shipped off with the rest of the applications.

I think most colleges… every college has different requirements. I never had to complete an essay. But I know that there are institutions that would require that.

Jonathan Hughes: Letters of recommendation or anything like that?

Lauren Danz: I think the requirements tend to be a little bit looser for transfer students, I think because they know you’re not coming from that same type of high school where th- you have a guidance counselor that’s working one-on-one with you a lot of the time.

Jonathan Hughes: So let’s talk about financial aid, too. So I know that sometime, you’ve probably filed financial aid at your first school, for UMass Amherst and for Worcester State. When you’re transferring midyear, do you need to file forms again? Or can you use the form that you filed in the first place?

Lauren Danz: So if you’re transferring mid-year, you don’t need to redo the FAFSA. You can just log in and add your new college to the list. Your information will get sent [00:19:00] to them, and then it’s up to the school to assess you for financial aid and see, what you’re eligible for. If you are transferring during a new school year, then yes, you do need to fill out the FAFSA because you need to fill it out every single year that you’re going to be in school.

Jonathan Hughes: What if you’re going from a college that only required a FAFSA to a college that also requires a CSS Profile as well as a FAFSA? So what would you do then?

Lauren Danz: Yes, you definitely need to make sure to fill out the CSS Profile then because the school’s going to want to have that information as well so they can, see what financial aid you qualify for.

Jonathan Hughes: I just wanted to break in really quickly here to tell you that we have all sorts of resources for transfer students available on mefa.org, including the article Eight Tips for Transfer Students. That can be found at our resource center. And as always, you can reach out to us with any questions at [email protected], or over the phone at 800-449-MEFA.

And what about financial aid deadlines?

Lauren Danz: Yes. Yeah, most schools will have their [00:20:00] own financial aid deadlines for transfer students. So same thing, you want to make sure you check the school’s website and see when those deadlines are, and it’s really important that you meet them so you can get everything you’re eligible for.

Jonathan Hughes: We get calls from students who are transferring mid-year. Maybe they have a loan for their first college. The first semester’s paid for. They want to switch that loan over to their new college. It’s not as easy as they may imagine it to be. But I know that you had an experience with that as well, right?

You said you had a loan, and how did you manage that?

Lisa Rooney: I believe we called the lender and let them know. And the… I can’t remember if the college or the lender sent the check directly to me. And then I was able to apply those funds from, it was when I was transferring from URI to Framingham, I had those funds, and I was able to then just apply whatever that balance was towards my balance at Framingham State.

Jonathan Hughes: As happens a lot, we get calls from students who have their first semester paid for, they have a pending [00:21:00] disbursement going out- … but they’re not going to be at that school- Yep … and they need their, funds to go to their upcoming school. What do they need to do?

Lisa Rooney: They should definitely communicate with the college and let them know that they’re not going to be attending, and make sure that disbursement gets canceled and goes back to the lender.

And then they will need to likely reapply for funds for the new school.

Jonathan Hughes: So if anyone’s listening to this and they’re thinking about transferring, they’re not sure how to make that decision, what should they be considering that can help them make that decision?

Lauren Danz: Yeah. I’d say the first one is maybe finances, making sure that the school you are transferring to is still going to be an affordable option.

The second one is credits, making sure that any credits you’ve already earned are going to transfer over, or at least a good amount of them because you’ve already put in that work and you’ve already taken those classes. And the third one would be fit. Just making sure that the new school is going to be a good fit and figuring out what it is that you’re not loving about your current school, and is this [00:22:00] school going to, not be like that, just so you don’t end up having to transfer again, hopefully.

Lisa Rooney: I would add trust, trust your gut. Trust … if, it doesn’t feel right, explore it, see what that means for you. I’m a perfect example. I stuck with it I went to four different schools. Did I count that right? Five? I don’t know. I think it’s five. It’s five. Yeah, I think it’s five, yeah. It’s five. I should go back to college, do math.

No, so you trust your gut, and you trust your instinct, and if it doesn’t feel right, do your research and explore what other options are available to you, and just stick with it. If college is for you, and if it’s something that you want, there is a path for you. You just have to really trust your instincts and believe in yourself.

Consider your career path, right? So for me, I knew that I wanted to help people. I thought I wanted to get into that medical field, so I spent a lot of time researching schools that would be able to get me to a, a path that I wanted to go to. Of course, that didn’t quite work out for me, but I think [00:23:00] had it worked out, that would’ve been great.

But I think one of the biggest things is looking at the schools, looking at the programs that they offer, thinking about what you want to do when you’re out of school and is that school going to be able to deliver that for you? And then there are resources available. MEFA is one of them, of course.

We have lots of resources online. We have folks who will take your calls and you can certainly schedule a one-on-one with us. But we’re happy to help guide you to get to where you want to go.

Jonathan Hughes: Lisa, Lauren, thank you so much.

Lisa Rooney: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah, I think people really appreciate hearing personal stories like these that they can see themselves in.

So until next time, my name is Jonathan Hughes, and this has been the MEFA podcast.